If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Recommissioning after Coronavirus

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by johnofwessex, Mar 24, 2020.

  1. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    10,466
    Likes Received:
    18,034
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cheltenham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Yes, but. All this talk of how we can make things safe for passengers is fine, but until the government lifts its restrictions on using public transport "unless absolutely necessary for work" isn't it all a bit academic? I don't see how any railway could re-open to the public in good conscience whilst that advice remains. On the more optimistic side, it may be that as the science advances then even if the cases remain broadly stable certain activities may be found to be safer than first thought. I can't confess to have read all of this article yet, but it's certainly interesting, looking at the ways this virus is actually spread on the scale of feet and inches, rather than the broad nation-wide level or the microscopic level: https://quillette.com/2020/04/23/co...UFarQuUqs8o9Da1IdYjDcm_q-ARyyg8SrgKGV11kyh86U
    It's also worth remembering that, as far as I can make out, organisations only have an obligation to enable people to practise social distancing, but there is no requirement for that organisation to actually enforce it, i.e. it's not the organisation's fault if, having provided enough room, a safe number of people still get too close. It seems some bodies seem to think they have to actively be stopping people from social distancing, and thus writing everything off as too difficult (wich, to be fair, it probably would be), but I'm not sure that's actually the case.
     
    andrewtoplis, Andy Williams and jnc like this.
  2. Andy Williams

    Andy Williams Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2010
    Messages:
    856
    Likes Received:
    929
    Occupation:
    Design Engineer
    Location:
    Shropshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    One of the issues to consider for any heritage railway that reopens under the 'New Normal' conditions, is that it would only need some one to post a photo on social media of passengers/visitors failing to adhere to social distancing requirements, for a torrent of judgemental rants/abuse against that railway to be unleashed. The fact that the railway concerned would probably have little direct control over the actions of these visitors would mean nothing to those reading the intemperate posts. The last thing that any railway needs whilst trying to re-establish their operations is a load of bad publicity.

    Andy
     
    Greenway and flying scotsman123 like this.
  3. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,511
    Likes Received:
    2,706
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Western Atlantic
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Great article; thanks for posting it. (I've been big on Quillette for some time now - their discussion area seems to be one of the few places on the Internet where people actually have their brains turned on.) There might be some useful (and good) news about modifying lockdowns there, if those results can be confirmed.

    Noel
     
    flying scotsman123 likes this.
  4. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    26,198
    Likes Received:
    57,834
    Location:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I wonder if there will be a change in the guidance about social distancing (obviously - driven by the science :) ). A change from say 2m to 1m as the nominal separation distance would make a lot of difference in some situations; for example, I heard someone representing the restaurant trade saying it might change an unviable 30% capacity limit to nearer 70%, which might become viable. I can imagine a lot of lobbying is going on behind the scenes to change what the official advice is; and equally we probably have a Government that temperamentally is more inclined to err on the side of opening things up rather than keeping them tight.

    Tom
     
    flying scotsman123 likes this.
  5. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    10,466
    Likes Received:
    18,034
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cheltenham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    That is a good point, not one I'd considered. It feeds into the latest British tradition of going to the park and then complaining about how many other people are at the park given the current situation!
     
    35B likes this.
  6. Wenlock

    Wenlock Well-Known Member Friend

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2008
    Messages:
    2,027
    Likes Received:
    1,319
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Bus Driver
    Location:
    Loughton Essex
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer

    I have read that the W.H.O. Guidance is still 1m. But the trouble I think is that if you say 2m, people will squeeze that down a bit. If you say 1m, then people are likely to get closer than that.
     
  7. mikechant

    mikechant Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2012
    Messages:
    205
    Likes Received:
    233
    I would recommend that if heritage railways *do* re-open with reduced capacity, they have a 'base price' and a 'suggested price', with it made clear that if you *can't* spare the money, pay the base price, no pressure, but if you *can* afford the 'suggested price' please pay that to help the railway survive.

    I've saved loads of money as a pensioner during the 'lockdown', I'd be happy to pay £80 for (e.g.) a GCR day rover just for me.
     
  8. andrewtoplis

    andrewtoplis Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    1,367
    Likes Received:
    817
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I could see this, combined with wearing a mask. It would enable a lot of society to re-open. Assuming decent mask supplies are established
     
  9. 5944

    5944 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2006
    Messages:
    8,098
    Likes Received:
    7,730
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Train Maintainer for GTR at Hornsey
    Location:
    Letchworth
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    WHO guidance is 1m, most other countries are either that or 1.5m, yet apparently it was decided the Great British Public couldn't be trusted to stay that far apart, hence the 2m separation.
     
    Jamessquared likes this.
  10. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    21,153
    Likes Received:
    20,920
    Location:
    1016
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I'm about to apparently trivialise something that has been a catastrophe for many families but like everyone I'm trying to make sense of something really complicated and actually something we have lived with for our lifetimes.

    There is always a risk that we will 'pick up' something. It is a low risk but it is there. Usually it is relatively minor like a cold but it can sometimes be more serious. To this day I remember the food poisoning that laid me low for three days. It was picked up at a national pub chain and centred on a particular dish I had. (No, it wasn't Wetherspoons!) What we are talking about currently is different because it is serious with no vaccine yet and some people die from contracting it. But that is also true of pneumonia.

    Irrespective of what the government says we can or cannot do out of this lockdown it is not going to influence what I do. There is no way that they can know how risky what I choose to do will be for me. I have to make that call. In that respect there are pretty obvious settings where the risk of catching anything airborne or transmitted by people is relatively high. What immediately comes to mind is a) inside, b) close to other people for an extended period of time and c) in a shared environment with limited air circulation.

    So on travel, I'm sanguine about trains as I don't generally travel when it's crowded. Even on heritage railways I choose times that are not busy, if I can. (It's easier to take photographs.) And usually, every window is open! At the other extreme, planes are entirely different and I've caught enough colds and throat infections after long and medium haul travel to know that this is not going to improve anytime soon. I expect others will have a similar view and unless they have to fly, they will not. But hey, if the airline industry does contract, I'm not all that certain that's a bad thing. The world will readjust and the planet may thank us.

    So as far as the heritage railway industry is concerned I think that solutions will be found. The people who will support the railways will be sympathetic and try, through their actions, to help. It will take a while but the will is there, I am sure. And if fares adjust upwards to accommodate smaller numbers, I reckon that the public will understand and be grateful when they see the lengths that these railways will go to. It will probably be in contrast to what is practically possible on the main rail network where people will be preoccupied with getting from A to B rather than enjoying the experience they have chosen to visit.

    As for main line charters, the same applies and ironically the beautiful Saphos 'coffins' will suddenly seem less attractive. But we shall see.
     
    mdewell, jnc, Bluenosejohn and 2 others like this.
  11. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    25,720
    Likes Received:
    24,309
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Which is why we have the 2m guidance in the UK, and are then dealing with consequences like a carriage with 90 seats only being able to take 15 people on "mass transit".
     
  12. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    25,720
    Likes Received:
    24,309
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    That's fair, especially if combined with the chance to Gift Aid the difference between the two - though the admin could be tricky.
     
  13. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2008
    Messages:
    3,911
    Likes Received:
    3,713
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    South Hams
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    The issue for prospective travellers and all the best attempts by the railway to maintain the prescribed - at the time - social distance may well be the few that ignore the wish by the majority to maintain the distance. Visiting a supermarket, street or anywhere where quite a few people gather will often appears to show how difficult it can be when those who are absent minded, or just plain careless go about things their own way.
     
  14. DcB

    DcB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,368
    Likes Received:
    423
    Location:
    Surrey
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Is this the only heritage railway in Europe to reopen and will good to see how it progresses?
    Is it run by just paid staff, or are volenteers used?
    Presume the German government is not saying only essential travel on public transport is allowed.
     
  15. desperado

    desperado Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2006
    Messages:
    214
    Likes Received:
    81
    Location:
    Brussels
    Reading some of the articles, it suggests that confined spaces with limited air movement are really a bad idea - irrespective of how far apart the people are. Another factor is how long you are exposed. A journey of 1-2 hours in a mark 1 with the windows open over the summer sounds a lot more attractive than 10-12-14 hours in a mark 2 d/e/f on a railtour later in the year.
     
  16. lostlogin

    lostlogin Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2007
    Messages:
    429
    Likes Received:
    205
    I appreciate you were not, I was just trying to make the point that a lot more time and expense is now spent on safety operational requirements than was the case many years ago.
     
    jnc and Andy Williams like this.
  17. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Messages:
    9,218
    Likes Received:
    7,275
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Thorn in my managers side
    Location:
    72
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Presumably the narrow gauge lines with 'open' coaches will have a ready made solution
     
  18. lostlogin

    lostlogin Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2007
    Messages:
    429
    Likes Received:
    205
    That many railway volunteers are of an older generation is not a myth but it possible is a reflection that they have grown old as the railway has grown older. Is pretty easy now to find a railway where you could have started volunteering as a student and now be well into retirement age. Those old codgers, and I am nearly there will keep turning up until we have to stop. We also have a change in demographics, student loans mean you are far more likely to have to have a full time job whilst a student than in my generation whilst the elderly are more affluent, living longer and more healthy. On top of this the running season has slowly expanded, you have more midweek running, more special events outside the traditional holiday periods, e,g Santa and Halloween trains and railways have extended etc so need more operating staff. The older retired generation are going to fill many of those turns as the rest of us with a set few weeks holiday a year still have the same amount of free time. Yes the more of the younger generation the better but I don't think the reliance on older generations is simply because we cannot attract the younger generation.
     
    Wenlock likes this.
  19. lostlogin

    lostlogin Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2007
    Messages:
    429
    Likes Received:
    205
    So the solution is to go back to the birth of the railways where the majority basically sat in what where wagons with benches. Simples!
     
  20. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Messages:
    9,218
    Likes Received:
    7,275
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Thorn in my managers side
    Location:
    72
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    No but they will have a ready to hand solution for some of the issues - in summer!
     

Share This Page