CMEs of the 20th Century

Anyone in China?

 

I think it might be worth defining what the role of the CME constitutes and if any one individual in recent times has held such a role.

I mean the role has shifted, @Jamessquared has pointed out previously, Drummond was responsible for driver discipline where as I doubt that Gresley was. Some CMEs seem to have left most of the design work to the drawing office etc etc

 

Take that back, have you heard Noel's new stuff?

 

I think it's a bit more nuanced than that - remember this was a time when the vast majority of people did not go to university (there were in the 19th century single figures of them anyway in England). Engineering especially was something that if someone had a bent for they would do straight from school, and need to do an apprenticeship because there was no other way. Once you start to look at it like that then Thompson begins to look less isolated.

But if you go back a bit to what they were doing before the apprenticeship, then:

Nigel Gresley - Marlborough
Stanier - Swindon High School/Wycliffe (I was tentative about putting Stanier in because he was only there for a year, but nevertheless)
Bulleid - Accrington Grammar School
Churchward - King Edward VI Grammar School Totnes
Robinson - Chester Grammar School
Henry Ivatt - Liverpool College
George Ivatt - Uppingham
Fairburn - Bradford Grammar and Brasenose College Oxford (then an apprenticeship)
Henry Fowler - Prince Henry's Grammar School Evesham
Deeley - Chester Grammar
Maunsell - Royal School Armagh, then Trinity College Dublin

I'd have bunged Riddles in too but can't find the details for him as easily. No science to the above sample, just the ones that came into my head for a quick look at.

It's basically what you would expect - middle middle with occasional lower and upper middle backgrounds going into a highly technical profession after grammar or public school.

 

The Cambridge thing was just a bit of gentle joshing (as I went to the other side of the boat race...[1]). It's interesting that two of the last (Fairburn and Thompson) both had degrees - again, my point about how this is rare in that discipline at that time, and the level of change (a mediaeval weaver would recognise the apprenticeship route). Riddles (I'm pretty sure) was apprenticeship from School. Fairburn was more electrical than mechanical IIRC - was his degree more electrical?

The choice of schools is interesting - The fact that most went to grammar schools is what you would expect. And only Swindon, Bradford and Liverpool are probably founded within the last 100 years of their attendance. Gresley going to a public school as the 5th son of a Clergyman always interests me - if his siblings all went to similar schools, that is a fair chunk of money for a man of the cloth to find. I know there is a baronetcy somewhere in the family, wonder if they stumped up.

Do we know the education of Jarvis and [chap who was involved in Duke of Gloucester]?
It's an interesting measure of the huge changes in their lifetimes.

[1] not getting into the elitism thing. Taking the p1ss out of the other place is simply a different version of City v United, LNER v GWR etc...

 

Yes and no. A premium apprenticeship, and even more so a pupillage when those still existed was a rather different thing to the apprenticeship that led to a job in the works. The premium was a substantial sum which would be beyond any working family - my grandfather was a premium apprentice with the Metropolitan railway and family tales have it that the premium was a major struggle for his West country non-onformist minister father. The amount of evening study expected was significant too. Holcroft tells us in 1898 his working day started at 6am until 5:30 pm (with some breaks) and then academic classes for two hours three nights a week.

 

I was Pembroke Oxford myself.

 

Steam Index says Malvern Wells and Wellington College for J.F. Harrison, who was CME of BR after Bond. Doesn't give a birth date, but says he joined the GNR in 1921, so I'd guess he was born in a year beginning with 19...

 

Dept of Transport Licenced Boatman & Basic Survival at Sea Certificate

 

So we can all agree that whatever SAC Martin says, Thompson is a Tab, and therefore Wrong...

Interesting that Harrison was a public school man, Jarvis's route is more traditional, and both apprentices.

What was Jarvis' role on the 9Fs?
Must be a very disconcerting feeling to be finding one's way to the top of one's chosen profession to find it is slipping away from under you.

 

funnily enough I’ve done BSSC too, at sunny Whale Island....

 

Staying on HMS Rame Head?

 

There is a good biographical note of Ron Jarvis's life and some of the designs he worked on here

 

Or better still, "Ron Jarvis - From Midland Compound to HST" by J.E. Chacksfield (2004) Oakwood Press, Usk ISBN 0 85361 618 3

 

I think you meant to quote post Hash 34

 

Indeed I did. Is anyone else having problems with this site bouncing around just when you click on to something? It's a bit annoying!

 

In my case its when trying to pick the forum thread I want

 

It's an enormous advert in the background taking time to load I think - it also has the effect of pushing some of the navigation of the side of the screen.

Tom

 

From Momento Films, a 2018 precis of the career of Sir William Stanier. At 30'35", you'd hardly expect it to be comprehensive, but especially with as much emphasis on his career at Swindon and Stanier family members who knew him, hopefully still of interest: