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Current and Proposed New-Builds

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by aron33, Aug 15, 2017.

  1. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    So what you are saying is that Drummond got the equivalent of a brand new top of the range company car, while Stroudley got a fourth hand mini metro, with stains on the seats, a hole where the radio used to be and a funny smell but with some fluffy dice thrown in for an upgrade for a company car.

    I wonder what would have happened if Bulleid had been allowed to design his own personal vehicle...
     
  2. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    Don't go there!
     
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  3. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Some sort of Leader maybe? Interesting what could have been thought you've raised.
     
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  4. LesterBrown

    LesterBrown Member

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    He wasn't allowed to but he did - the truth behind the Leader perhaps; nice empty cab at the trailing end for his portable armchair and desk
     
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  5. Richard Roper

    Richard Roper Well-Known Member

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    ...And plenty of time to sit and use it whilst someone summoned another loco to tow it back to Brighton again after another failure out on the line...

    Richard.
     
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  6. JohnElliott

    JohnElliott New Member

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    Half of a Leader mated with half of a 4-SUB motor coach?
     
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  7. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Half a Tavern car, surely?

    Tom
     
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  8. City of truro fan

    City of truro fan Member

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    81E2D0EF-7D21-4A28-A8CE-ADC53FD70B22.jpeg This is my idea for it
     
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  9. andrewshimmin

    andrewshimmin Well-Known Member

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    If you know of the whereabouts of a Cardean boiler, we'd love to hear from you...

    Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
     
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  10. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    Oh god, no!
     
  11. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    The modifications to the 4700 are (or were) to allow main line running. The modifications to the County were in order to make use of an otherwise unwanted boiler, but in the end little of that has been kept, saving little money but retricting the boiler pressure to 225 psi. With a new 280 psi boiler they could have made slightly smaller cylinders (admittedly at extra expense) to fit the current loading gauge and still had a TE similar to that of a County at 250 psi or even a bit more. With the 225 psi boiler and the Modified Hall cylinders the result will be a TE slightly lower than that of a Hall, way below that of a real County, with cylinders not making best use of the available steam.

    The effect on appearance will be nil for the County but barely noticeable for the 4700.

    So I personally consider that the decision for the 4700's boiler was sound and the decision for the County's was a mistake, at least in retrospect. That doesn't make me an "opponent" of the County project, but it certainly won't get any of my money, whereas the 4700 may. Others are of course entitled to different opinions.
     
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  12. JohnElliott

    JohnElliott New Member

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    Tavern car body, sure, but it needs to keep the 4-SUB motor bogie so it can run as a hybrid.
     
  13. Cosmo Bonsor

    Cosmo Bonsor Member

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    It would be interesting to look at a drawing of the LSWR Inspection vehicle to see how many parts were off other types of engine. I bet it would be quite a few of them, stuff like motion especially.

    Things that were one offs needn’t have been massively expensive as long as there were no patterns for castings to be made.

    I think Tom’s figure of a little more than an M7 looks about right.

    Oh and I bet you could easily get travel sick or have your fillings shaken loose on the Brighton thing.
     
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  14. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    The Brighton thing looks a bit like a Commode or a ladies bathing hut to reverse you into the sea at Brighton.

    I would hope it would have the inside of a Tavern Car.

    I can’t believe no one at the Bluebell, MHR or Swanage hasn’t proposed a new build Tavern Car.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2020
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  15. hogger

    hogger New Member

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    Would prefer her pre-rebuild to be honest
    [​IMG]
     
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  16. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Pretty little loco ..... puts me in mind of the Jersey Railway's first pair of 'Sharpies', Haro Haro and Duke of Normandy
     
  17. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    When you compare that drawing with the later form, it is clear just how little modification Brighton did to construct the inspection vehicle.

    Tom
     
  18. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Cylinders and the bogie wheels (very small) are the two things that obviously leap out as not having any equivalence elsewhere in LSWR design and therefore presumably requiring new patterns. The boiler is also very small diameter - I wondered if it could have any shared dimensions with the C14 motor tanks, but seemingly not.

    The driving wheels are the same diameter as on an M7. Lots of other fitments - buffers, safety valves, lubricators and so on - were presumably pretty standard.

    The other thought about the cost is to what extent that quoted cost encompassed the drawing office effort - I don't know the answer to that, but I guess it is not beyond the realms of possibility that that cost was in some way disguised under some other budget. Otherwise, the drawing office effort would be disproportionately high for a loco built as a one-off relative to spreading that cost over a class of many locos.

    It does look like Drummond got decent usage out of it, since it reputedly ran a high mileage while he was in charge, including for a period a 120 mile round trip from Surbiton (where he lived) to Eastleigh every day - there are tales as well of speeds which, if true, might have made for a somewhat lively time! Supposedly it ran 171,000 miles between January 1900 and December 1912.

    A couple of good articles here:

    http://www.wirralmodelengineeringsociety.co.uk/Articles/The Bug pt1.pdf
    http://www.wirralmodelengineeringsociety.co.uk/Articles/The Bug pt11.pdf

    Tom
     
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  19. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    The question I have is where was it kept at Surbiton. Was there a shed there? I sort of imagine Drummond having a personal branch to his house and it being kept in a shed in his garden like Lord Belbrough.

    Or under a false hill like Batman, or Thunderbirds. Drummond sliding down a pole to get to the shed.
     
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  20. Dunfanaghy Road

    Dunfanaghy Road Well-Known Member

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    I would guess that The Bug was based at Nine Elms Loco. The interesting bit is when you consider that it probably worked chimney first if at all possible. I think the nearest table was Woking. There must have been some system for letting the crew know whither they were bound, so that they could pick the Old Man up while facing correctly. Did they work saloon first from Nine Elms to Surbiton and chimney first back to Nine Elms Works? Nine Elms - Surbiton - Eastleigh was easy, of course.
    Pat
     

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