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S&D Railway Trust

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Andy Norman, Feb 24, 2020.

  1. garth manor

    garth manor Well-Known Member

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    SDRMT have a very strong case for full recompense for the shed etc, these were agreed site improvements with landlord consent, created in full expectation of a very long occupation of the site, the starter being full equivalence finance including standard labour costs to enable potential replication elsewhere, the previous volunteer help not being relevant to the claim.
     
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  2. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    I fear that at a time when the ability for all railways to raise funds and support is crucial, the WSR has shot itself in the foot over the S&DRT
     
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  3. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

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    As Mike Sherwood (@aldfort ) has said, any WSRA member or WSR supporter with any concern about any matter occurring on the WSR is welcome to contact him directly, with via a PM here, or using the e-mail address on the WSRA website.

    Robin
     
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  4. Jon Pegler

    Jon Pegler New Member

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    Some people are so vociferous one year, so quiet the following year. I wonder why?
     
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  5. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

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    Because corporate responsibility - in this case to a Charity Board - brings both opportunities for engagement with other organisations and obligations about public statements.

    Robin
     
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  6. jma1009

    jma1009 Well-Known Member

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    I don't often 'like' a reply on here by clicking on something, but I thought 'Fish Plates's post above to be excellent.

    The WSRA and WSSRT have had 5 weeks now to express publicly their position in regard to the WSR PLC board serving a 'Notice to Quit' on the SDRT...

    Their silence in making any official public response is frankly deafening.

    Mike Sherwood and Robin have posted on here since 10th February, yet so far have not commented at all so far as the SDRT is concerned. They had a board meeting today, plus another meeting (or conjoined) with Martin Brown of the WSR PLC board instead of JJP as originally planned. The WSSRT also had a planned board meeting.

    If the published minutes of this meeting/meetings do not refer to the SDRT, then there will be serious repercussions.

    Both Robin and Mike have the platform here or via other means to clarify their position with regards to the SDRT, as do the WSSRT.

    I don't mind the WSRA having a couple of weeks to consider their position on all this, but we are now 5 weeks on.

    Cheers,

    Julian
     
  7. jma1009

    jma1009 Well-Known Member

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  8. jma1009

    jma1009 Well-Known Member

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    I have posted something on here on the WSR operations thread tonight, and it is worth repeating that the WSRA and WSSRT had planned board meetings recently, and so far, 5 weeks after the 'Notice to Quit' on the SDRT at Washford, no public statement has been made by either organisation to support the SDRT.

    5 weeks is quite enough to come to a position for both organisations, and their silence on this matter is deafening. And I might add shameful.

    This will have repercussions.

    Ian Coleby has been prompted on here to state his position clearly as a WSSRT Trustee of long standing, and signing off the new lease of 50 years to the SDRT. Other prompts have been made to Mike Sherwood and Robin Moira White of the WSRA; all have a platform on here which they use, and have other avenues available to them.

    It is not unreasonable to expect all 3 of the above to make a statement on here regarding their position as of now regarding the SDRT and Washford.

    Cheers,

    Julian
     
  9. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

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    I’ve seen some silly posts on this thread over the couple of thousand pages this and its daughter threads have spawned but in IMHO this one takes the biscuit.

    Mike and I are answerable to the WSRA members who elected us and, rest assured, we will explain our actions to our members at the appropriate time.

    Just for now, our focus is on helping the Railway on which I have volunteered for over 40 years through a crisis affecting the whole of the U.K. worse (for the Railway) than its potential bankruptcy in 1981/2.

    We have set out some of the actions we are taking (in my case as an adjunct to a very busy professional life) and the Trustees are considering other steps. Help or not, that’s your choice.

    The WSRA Trustees are not beholden to commentators on Nat Pres who appear to believe they have a wayleave to threaten us about minute contents. ‘Serious repercussions.’ Are you proposing to visit Station House to offer violence? Are you suggesting some form of action against me personally? I HATE bullies and those who operate through threats. and if that is YOUR stance, make good on it, and explain what you mean.

    I have said before that lack of comment on social media should not be interpreted as inaction.

    Or you can grow up, roll your sleeves up and help. There is plenty to do. Have you made a donation to the WSR rail renewal fund for works this spring? That will help keep the Railway in existence.

    Robin
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
  10. Jamie Glover

    Jamie Glover New Member

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    How considerate of the elected trustees of the WRSA to decide exactly when it is the most appropriate time to advise their membership of the WRSA trustee's reaction to the disgraceful termination of the S&D Railway Trust's lease.

    To paraphrase a comment from Groucho Marx. "I would not consider joining or supporting an organisation that would have people like that as its trustees".

    Jamie Glover
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 19, 2020
  11. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    As Shakespeare said "The lady doth protest too much, methinks".

    All I know is that WSR plc has issued a notice to quit on the S&DRT. Apart from what everyone seems to agree was a surprise decision made without any warning, the tone of the letter leaves a great deal to be desired. The deafening silence from elsewhere in the organisation or any sense of 'corporate coherence' has created a void that many voices are filling. Nobody should be surprised about that especially given the track record of this railway and the dysfunctional image it portrays publicly.
     
  12. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

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    As you will have seen, based on the ‘likes’ of my post and yours, there is a difference of opinion about this. I accept that. Accepting office on behalf of others usually involves difficult choices in one way or another. But I wouldn’t be doing my job as a Trustee if I didn’t recognise (1) collective responsibility and action and (2) that sometimes things are more effectively done without a splurge on social media.

    I will have volunteered on the WSR (and other heritage railways for 41 years at Easter and I have chosen to live by the line side. Every personal decision I take and collective decision I contribute to starts with ‘is this best for our Railway’.

    Robin
     
  13. Andy Norman

    Andy Norman Member

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    Sorry Robin but your post is a cheap shot at people trying to help. You know full well what Julian meant by “repercussions”, it was not directed at Robin the person but the WSRA & WSSRT, he was clear on that. He, I and the others working behind the scenes to try and bring the sorry mess the WSR has got itself into over the S&DRT and other things to a conclusion have discussed the possible scenarios with you directly over the last couple of weeks including up to this weekend. I think some people are very upset that one day people are leading the reform group in reforming the management and trying to turn it into a more morally acceptable place to volunteer and give their money and next you turn on the people you asked for help to do that.

    Trying to turn Julian’s post regarding the actions of the WSRA & WSSRT in supporting or not the PLC’s actions into a personal threat is just another deflection. So I’ll spell out clearly what Julian meant and remind you that you and I and others have had this exact conversation behind closed doors in the last week. As Julian says 5 weeks is long enough to state a position, neither has in public but the WSRA through its public statements in the last week (which were posted on here as well as other places) it has placed itself in a position where it is clearly backing the PLC in all regards. That has a repercussion for the WSRA Board if the court of public opinion on this, the HPC Bid activities not happening and a number of other things the PLC have done and are doing finds that there has been some moral wrong doings (or perhaps potentially even legally). You will recall part of an email I wrote to others including you only a couple of days ago where I said with reference to certain actions coming into the full light of day and the potential reaction of outside parties whilst running through scenarios: "it would then be as easy to remove two Boards as one". That’s the repercussion for the WSRA, nobody ever suggested coming round your house for a cup of tea and a look at the daffodils.

    As you rightly say you are answerable to your members, however I also think you are answerable to a wider audience who want the WSR to survive as well. Either the WSRA are supporting this action or they are not, the future of the WSRA rests on how that plays out. Time to stop deflecting and just say: yes or no.

    You of course infer that ‘something’ is being done, if that’s the case and you don’t want to publish that here then at least trust the people you were enlisting last week to head up the immediate reform rather than turn and cut them down here in public.

    As for you hating bullies, you and I have had that conversation over the last year a number of times whilst I and Chris and many others were bullied out of the WSR, whilst you and the WSRA Board sat by and let it happen (and in fact aided it) as I’ve reminded you many times face to face. That’s also going to be a conversation that you and I are going to have again in private given your post here.

    You will also know I have said for a number of years the only problem the WSR has it its culture,everything else feeds from that. The toxic culture of internal plots from all three boards who just try and outgun each other whilst using the WSR as a weapon to knock each other out has brought the WSR to this position, it’s been happening for years so it’s not unique to the current management. That position is unsustainable for the WSR, the people and money are running out, it’s now on the verge of going bust yet all three Boards continue to play power games with each other. Time for radical reform as messing about at the edges and replacing one person with another just doesn’t cut it anymore, the WSR has to be larger than just one or two peoples will.

    You are right in one part of your post, covid19 will have a large impact on the WSR and focus does indeed need to be on that for the time being, but I’ve got two comments on that 1. It’s a pity the PLC has upset so many people, it means that the just launched WSRA recovery fund may not yield the same support as it would have, and 2. It doesn’t change the unsustainability of the WSR or make the problems go away. Given that people and money are leaving due to actions being taken on a number of fronts it’s likely that covid19 will only serve to increase the speed of that valuable resource drain and give people less time to turn the WSR around.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
  14. ikcdab

    ikcdab Member Friend

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    Actually Julian it is unreasonable. This forum is not the place for public statements. This is a chat forum which some have likened to chatting to people in the pub. I have already posted my personal feelings.
    Ian Coleby
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
  15. ikcdab

    ikcdab Member Friend

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    Julian this is a duplicate of what you posted on the SDRT thread except that you haven't quoted me on this one.
    This forum is not the place for formal statements.
    What exactly do you mean by "serious repercussions"?
    The WSR is closed indefinitely and all operations are mothballed. This is far far more serious, perhaps the worst crisis the railway has ever faced. And the WSR is just one of dozens of railways and hundreds of other businesses in the same situation. Getting through this crisis should now be the utmost priority.
    Ian Coleby
     
  16. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    I agree with that comment, this is not an official platform and should not be mistaken for one. No body discussed on here is obliged to use it for announcements, and it is unreasonable to assume that they must.

    However, given the history of the WSR in the last decade or so, it is nonetheless disappointing that posters previously vocal in support of good governance, and who did successfully use this forum as a platform, have remained very quiet or have indeed actively tried to take the heat out of the chat on here.

    I make that observation at a practical level - there are positions discussed on here that could have been calmed down with appropriate responses - but also at a moral level given the appalling statements in the public domain from the plc.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  17. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    You are completely wrong on that point. Nat Pres is not the organ of any organisation although it's flattering that you think it may be.

    If clarity about actions does not appear through the proper channels of any particular set-up then that's another matter but Nat Pres should not be seen as the alternative.
     
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  18. ikcdab

    ikcdab Member Friend

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    Andy, the WSSRT has not done this.
    And again, I have not seen this from the WSSRT.
    Ian
     
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  19. ikcdab

    ikcdab Member Friend

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    When someone is independent then they can post as they wish. If an individual then becomes a trustee or director then they need to be far more circumspect for fear of their statements being taken as the views of that body. So I am not surprised at this.
    Ian Coleby
     
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  20. free2grice

    free2grice Part of the furniture Friend

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    Such a shame that others at the head of WSR management don't share your passionate views. <BJ>
     
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