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60007 (4498) Sir Nigel Gresley Overhaul

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by No.7, Mar 25, 2016.

  1. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Thank the lord they didn't name one Swallow otherwise we would have a debate about whether it was an African or European one?

    Still makes my head hurt the numbering sequence of the A4's. I always assumed that SNG was alater example than Mallard based on numbering.
     
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  2. blink bonny

    blink bonny Member

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    Wild swan is generally held to be an alternative name for Whooper swan (Cygnus cygnus), a winter vistor from the Arctic.

    The term seems to have fallen from use in recent years.
     
  3. blink bonny

    blink bonny Member

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    Which 'European' one? Barn swallow, or Red-rumped swallow? I've seen them both in England.
     
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  4. misspentyouth62

    misspentyouth62 Well-Known Member

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    and both spent their winter in Africa. No such species as an African Swallow btw although plenty of hirundines in Africa we wouldn't see in Britain.
     
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  5. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Its a Monty Python reference.....
     
  6. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    If railways can name their locomotives after all sorts of people and things, including mythological characters, what's wrong with a name such as "seagull", which we all understand perfectly well and many of us use, even if some of us complain that it's not a proper name and one really ought to use "gull" as a generic name or "herring gull" etc for paticular species?

    And anyway what on earth has that to do with the overhaul of a locomotive that is named after its designer?

    Edit: corrected wrong pronoun, "them" (which reflected wording that I abandoned) to "us".
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2020
  7. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Not ducking the question but the designer was well known for his love of birds hence his satisfaction when Mallard became the world-beater in speed terms.
     
  8. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Part of the furniture

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    They could have named one "Arthur Scargill's Pit Lamp", and she would still be a thing of ultimate beauty......
     
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  9. 60017

    60017 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Nothing, but at least it's a tenuous link (unlike pub licensing issues in the ET thread :eek:).
     
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  10. huochemi

    huochemi Part of the furniture

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    The Locomotive Mag in February 1938 stated that 4466 had been named Hirondelle (which is rather prettier than Herring Gull), and 4467 Condor (perhaps not so good as Wild Swan).
     

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  11. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Note the mistake in the text; I also wonder why the names were subsequently changed given that 4466 was released as Herring Gull but subsequently renamed Sir Ralph Wedgewood in January 1944 to replace the A4 destroyed in the York blitz and 4467 was released as Wild Swan. In response to an earlier query the final logic of the 1946 Thompson renumbering (60000 being added in BR days) was 1 - 6 - the LNER officials named between 1939-1944 then the designer followed by the Commonwealth countries then the original Silver quartet followed by the birds. Interestingly the renaming of Kestrel to Miles Beevor (November 1947); Sea Eagle to Walter K Whigham (October 1947) and Peregrine to Lord Faringdon (March 1948) also commemorated LNER officials in post at nationalisation but appears to be random in the choice of locomotive. The other curiosity was the intended naming of 60009 as Osprey prior to release but the name was allocated to 4494 / 60003 instead yet in the 1980s when apartheid demonstrators posed a possible threat to 60009 it regained the name for a short period; as an aside it also appeared as 60027 Merlin for a short period IIRC.

    The history of the 35 A4s still fascinates !
     
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  12. misspentyouth62

    misspentyouth62 Well-Known Member

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    I find it interesting that countries of the commonwealth were part of the A4 naming regime including 60009 of course. Yet clearly 60020 fell from favour and was the only one of these renamed (to Guillemot I believe) but didn't Pakistan remain part of the Commonwealth just as did the rest?
     
  13. misspentyouth62

    misspentyouth62 Well-Known Member

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    Well nothing at all. I don't recall anyone complaining?

    Whilst we deviate from No7 whilst others are busy completing the awaited overhaul, let's not forget that GWR Bulldog number 3453 - was also named Seagull. :)
     
  14. 60017

    60017 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    https://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9002
     
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  15. 46203

    46203 Member

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    S412. 60009 Upperby 06.09.jpg

    Certainly was: early morning in September 1991 at Upperby
     
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  16. misspentyouth62

    misspentyouth62 Well-Known Member

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  17. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

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    I don’t think anyone has suggested there is anything wrong with the name Seagull
     
  18. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Post #91
     
  19. blink bonny

    blink bonny Member

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    The LMS named at least one after a species that never existed, albeit one step removed. It was named after a Royal Navy destroyer, which itself was named after the bird in question. 5736 'Phoenix'.
     
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  20. huochemi

    huochemi Part of the furniture

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    There were a few Phoenixes around.;)
     

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