If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

60009

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by BillyReopening, Apr 17, 2016.

  1. BrightonBaltic

    BrightonBaltic Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2011
    Messages:
    724
    Likes Received:
    242
    It's a shame the 4-6-4 was never given a crack at the whip, 21 percent more grate area... it would undoubtedly have been capable of breaking it.
     
  2. dublo6231

    dublo6231 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2011
    Messages:
    560
    Likes Received:
    414
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    Sat at home
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Ooooffff - Spare a thought for the fireman!

    Mind you they would probably be a darn site more proficient with a shovel than I was during a recent experience with Number 9...I seemed to be forever in a cack-handed muddle!

    Thank goodness for those looking after me and Number 9 at the East Lancs - we had a fantastic day.
     
  3. BrightonBaltic

    BrightonBaltic Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2011
    Messages:
    724
    Likes Received:
    242
    Same size grate as the P2, the Peppercorn Pacifics and the Duchess... just fractionally bigger than a Merchant Navy...
     
  4. dublo6231

    dublo6231 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2011
    Messages:
    560
    Likes Received:
    414
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    Sat at home
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Good point - well made!

    I never considered that the grate area on an A4 was (as a percentage at least) that much smaller than those that you have listed.

    Every day's a school day!
     
  5. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    17,609
    Likes Received:
    11,222
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    St Leonards
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Not if your Drifting past our Victors front door :eek:, that earns you a whole chapter in his book, and an very slow, lingering demise.
     
    Victor likes this.
  6. 60017

    60017 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2008
    Messages:
    9,002
    Likes Received:
    7,891
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired from corporate slavery :o)
    Location:
    Fylde Coast
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Looking forward to having a 'riding day' behind No.9 on the ELR on Saturday :)
     
    46223 likes this.
  7. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2005
    Messages:
    4,414
    Likes Received:
    2,729
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chester le Street County Durham
    All correct 112mph, and still rising, when he got the tap on the shoulder, Mr Hoole's view was that SNG was in good enough nick to challenge the 126mph.

    Better track might also have helped with this, its all conjecture though, we will never know....
     
    Matt37401, Steve, MellishR and 2 others like this.
  8. Dan Hill

    Dan Hill Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2008
    Messages:
    2,575
    Likes Received:
    545
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Brick Machine Operator
    Location:
    Haywards Heath
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    As said by Std Tank, Bulleid was Gresley's assistant for a number of years. I think it was Bulleid who came up with or designed the valances on the A4's as well.
     
    Johnme101, Richard Roper and Wenlock like this.
  9. 60525

    60525 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2006
    Messages:
    432
    Likes Received:
    111
    Gender:
    Male
    I thought I'd read somewhere that the front end of the W1 was compromised with regard to the bore of its cylinders and not as free running. Happy to be corrected on this though....

    Sent from my SM-A202F using Tapatalk
     
  10. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    35,121
    Likes Received:
    20,771
    Occupation:
    Training moles
    Location:
    The back of beyond
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Lots of cylinder horsepower apparently but the valve/piston ratio was not as good as the A4s so not as free running - according to what I've ready anyway.
     
    60525 and Oakfield53 like this.
  11. BrightonBaltic

    BrightonBaltic Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2011
    Messages:
    724
    Likes Received:
    242
    Supposedly much faster starting out of King's Cross, I remember reading either Townend or Hardy saying... how hard would it have been to bore out the valve chests?
     
    60525 likes this.
  12. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    21,063
    Likes Received:
    20,773
    Location:
    1016
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Not so much a tap, I think, as a reduction in the cut off down from 30% because of 200 lb in the steam chest. Probably a bit of both but I'm not certain about 'challenging the 126' though. The write up of the trip talks about a possible 115 being the tops.

    But what a run though. It's just sad that near the end of steam on the Southern there just wasn't the space on the network or the expanse of track to extend the MNs over long distances. That said the number of three figures achieved by different locomotives was remarkable - those that we know of, that is. :). But that is a digression.
     
  13. RLinkinS

    RLinkinS Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2008
    Messages:
    912
    Likes Received:
    928
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    It would probably be impossible to increase the size of the valves significantly as there would be insufficient metal left around the valve lines if you increased the valve diameter.

    Sent from my SM-A105FN using Tapatalk
     
    60525 and Oakfield53 like this.
  14. dublo6231

    dublo6231 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2011
    Messages:
    560
    Likes Received:
    414
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    Sat at home
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Not normally one to post photographs - but I think this one turned out ok.

    Number 9 - Rawtenstall.JPG
     
  15. 242A1

    242A1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2006
    Messages:
    1,558
    Likes Received:
    1,299
    Grate area in itself is no guarantee of anything. The W1 was fitted with A1 pattern cylinders, 20" bore x 26" stroke with 8" diameter piston valves, these drove the nominal tractive effort figure up to 41,437 lb. in conjunction with a boiler pressure of 250 psi. The superheater surface was 706 sq. ft. which was less than that on the A4 at 748.9 sq. ft. which as a class had the advantage of a newer cylinder design with 9" valves which delivered a superior port area to cylinder volume ratio to the 18.5" x 26" cylinders. The W1 was not a high speed design though the tractive effort that it enjoyed did offer some advantages in other performance areas.

    When the experimental design was being considered Gresley was wanting to work with a high pressure cut-off of 75% but was persuaded otherwise. He should have trusted his instincts, he pitched the working pressure correctly at 450 psi the amount of heat per pound of steam is high here, to get any improvement it is needed to head into the realm of supercritical steam. What would have been the advantages of using a long cut-off in the high pressure cylinders? Look across the English Channel, at 90% h.p. cut-off the number is a little under 4,000 if the lessons learned there are applied.
     
  16. and60007

    and60007 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2009
    Messages:
    533
    Likes Received:
    453
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Community Operative
    Location:
    Barton upon Humber
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    60009 at Ramsbottom Sidings , East Lancs Railway, 18/01/20. Thank you very much for the people who liked the photo 20200118_093930~3.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2020
    FJR8642, green five, MattA and 15 others like this.
  17. 60017

    60017 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2008
    Messages:
    9,002
    Likes Received:
    7,891
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired from corporate slavery :o)
    Location:
    Fylde Coast
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Was lovely to spend some time around No.9 today. More of a riding rather than photting excursion. Trains were very well filled. She was wowing her spectators like the true thoroughbred she is. :D

    I09A1679lu.jpg I09A1693lr.jpg
     
    FJR8642, green five, MattA and 14 others like this.
  18. 46223

    46223 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2011
    Messages:
    6,375
    Likes Received:
    5,750
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lancs
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Interlude at Rawtenstall with 60009, 18-1-20. Why the wreath, anyone know?

    n1_2_1.jpg n2_2_1.jpg n3_2_1.jpg n4_2_1.jpg n5_2_1.jpg n6_2_1.jpg n7_2_1.jpg n8_2_1.jpg n9_2_1.jpg
     
    FJR8642, green five, acw71000 and 5 others like this.
  19. 60017

    60017 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2008
    Messages:
    9,002
    Likes Received:
    7,891
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired from corporate slavery :o)
    Location:
    Fylde Coast
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    According to a member of staff at Ramsbotton, the wreath was for a long-serving platform/train rubbish collector volunteer who passed recently.
     
    jnc likes this.
  20. 46223

    46223 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2011
    Messages:
    6,375
    Likes Received:
    5,750
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lancs
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Thanks John.
     

Share This Page