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Isle of Wight Steam Railway

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Freshwater, Nov 12, 2013.

  1. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    So, how much was the cost of the electric transformers added on to the Bournemouth electrification scheme ? was that charged to the Island System,
    How much was the cost of buying, at scrap value the tube cars, putting them through works, converting them to 3rd rail , how much was the cost of rebuilding ryde pier head , and Esplanade stations, my question was in regard to the costs from the electrification , the second batch of Hastings units were already on the order book and the material costs largely are already set, of course, true costs were hidden I dare say, otherwise the entire railway system would have closed on 31/12 1966 For Good. except for the Ryde pier tram .
     
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  2. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    You re shifting your ground again. The "Hastings unit" point (classic W.I.B.N.) has been replaced by "who paid for electrification". Answer, it was a bit later and the politicians had become involved. The same problem of the system not generating anything like the revenue required to finance proper renewal remained, as it does today
     
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  3. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    I thought the classic case of W.I.B.N. happened whent 33202 visited for the Diesel gala not so long ago, I think Martin's came up with a valid point Paul, Wasn't the tunnel at Ryde gauged for 156's and 158's?
     
  4. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Hardly the same at all. You make the usual confusion between running a public transport service and a visitor attraction seeking to explore possible special events. Some prove successful, others don't.

    Different people give different replies, always with utter confidence(!), as to the situation in the tunnel. The nearby Rink Road overbridge also has clearance issues.

    As ever. there can be any number of "brilliant" ideas if the cost of implementing them is kept out of condideration.
     
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  5. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    i'm confused now, my question was about the situation in 1966-67, not modern day, and asking a valid question were tube vehicles the only way of what was really intended to be a sticking plaster, the original idea was for the line to close some 10, at most 15 years later, once the tube stock was life expired , perhaps this should be under a different heading as its not about the preserved railway, but lets ask another question about the early days,
    After 31/12 31 and 24 were retained to work engineers trains before being put aside, 31 saw very little use 24 also was put aside fairly early on, as it was earmarked to be sold for preservation, I sometimes wonder, ( yes I know that's WIBN) But if say 27 had been kept back at ryde, 31 and 24 stayed at Newport, then 24 would have been used to shunt the condemned engines over to the cutting up area and to shunt other stock, coaches etc, for breaking, and of course been preserved, would 27 have maybe survived?
     
  6. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    In response to your point about how costs are allocated, my practical experience of large organisation project accounting is that ways to "hide" expenditure can exist, and therefore create opportunities to do things that might not withstand scrutiny in their own right. If it's true that IOW electrification kit was funded through the Bournemouth electrification, it's not impossible that additional build DEMU vehicles might have been justified for other reasons and assigned to the IOW. It is significantly less plausible however, as transformers are less likely to be noticed than trains.
     
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  7. Christopher125

    Christopher125 Part of the furniture

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    Almost certainly another urban myth, there'd be no reason to gauge such trains for the island - at best it could surely only apply to the short section re-roofed given the considerable 'throw' of 23m-long vehicles through the sharp curves.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2019
  8. gwalkeriow

    gwalkeriow Well-Known Member

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    It is something that I have seen on an official document, but I cannot for the life of me remember where. It did refer to class 150 and 158.
     
  9. Christopher125

    Christopher125 Part of the furniture

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    Beware official documentation! Apparently the 'sectional appendix' once showed Ryde Pier (as well as the Thameslink Core) cleared - whether by mistake or deliberate mischief-making - for Class 373 Eurostars...
     
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  10. gwalkeriow

    gwalkeriow Well-Known Member

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    At least they would work on the third rail ! :)
     
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  11. ilvaporista

    ilvaporista Part of the furniture

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    Now that I do like. Is that based on where the tunnelling shields from the Chunnel finally came up instead of being supposedly buried mid channel??..
     
  12. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Yeap that's the new fixed link except its from Calais, ready for when the IOW declares independence from the UK
     
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  13. JMJR1000

    JMJR1000 Member

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    Talking further about goings on at the Isle of Wight Steam Railway, besides a hopeful extension to Ryde St Johns Road Station, what other prospects could be awaiting in the railway's future? What would any of you like to see the railway do in the future?

    Personally I think acquiring the whole of Ashey Station and restoring it to how it was will quite likely be the next big project, along with perhaps finally making a start on restoring the E1 to steam, as I'd aspect many are looking forward to that. Beyond that I do think the railway's policy in replacing their less appropriate locomotives with ones that one should definitely be pursued, though most likely this would mean via means of new build.

    The Beyer Peacock 2-4-0 tank is always highly considered for a new build to tackle, though how about also throwing Manning Wardle o-6-0 saddle tank 'Medina' as seen here?

    [​IMG]

    Not sure how many Q Class Manning Wardles are out there left in existence, so I'm not sure if you could acquire one, but even if you can't I'm sure there has to be plenty of parts that have been manufactured over the years for the others. I reckon a engine like this would look great on the IOWSR.

    Of course another possibility would be to build a second Adams O2 to accompany Calbourne, but I am aware that is a rather contentious issue. That said however, another possibility I don't think many have considered is building another Terrier, since considering their compact yet ideal size for the railway, a third might be useful. Plus I suspect at this point nearly everything for a Terrier has been manufactured brand new, so building a whole new Terrier I can't imagine is troublesome a task. Of course building another E1 to compliment the one they got wouldn't be too bad an idea either I would have thought.

    Carriage wise I'm not sure they'd be much desire nor need for any new builds, got plenty carriage to work on rebuilding over time I'd imagine.

    As for the possibility of an extension... well I believe along with other the IOWSR doesn't have to be all that long, some would argue it's already at it's optimal length. I think personally extending as close as possible to Newport would be a good benefit to the railway, truly make it a line that goes from somewhere to somewhere (taking into account the Ryde St Johns Road extension), and surely getting near to a major town could help in attracting more folk to the railway. That's my thoughts on it anyway.
     
  14. gwalkeriow

    gwalkeriow Well-Known Member

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    Sounds as if you need to read the Railways Strategic Vision https://www.iwsteamrailway.co.uk/files/documents/strategic-vision-final-version-2017pdf.pdf it covers all of the visions that it has for the future.
     
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  15. JMJR1000

    JMJR1000 Member

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  16. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    A Beyer Peacock 2-4-0 would fit in very well , but that's as far as you would want to go, All preserved railways will be in for a hard time, as people have less leisure money, so any rebuilding past Wotton will never happen, because of the problems involved, plus theres the question of where do you go once your on the out skirts of Newport. Running into Ryde, will also present its own issues, such as what will network rail expect in the way of operating restrictions , then theres the question of getting to St Johns , ok its easy enough by Train, but will it generate the extra custom, and then theres the problem of what if it is too popular, being packed sardine like into coaches will make people decide to go else where.
     
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  17. gwalkeriow

    gwalkeriow Well-Known Member

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    Thank for taking the time and trouble to read it, it’s the lead post on this thread and I do wonder just how many people actually do read it.
    Many of your points are actively being pursued but most need a good deal of patience. For instance Ashey Station, we have to wait for it to come on to the market. With a few others we can be a little proactive, a short while ago an enquiry about the Australian Beyer Peacocks came to nought. But we did ask and it might just plant a seed for a future enquiry. We will almost certainly have to go down the new build Carriage line, if we want an Oldbury train that is. Their are no Oldbury brakes in existence so sometime in the future......
     
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  18. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    As regards the Oldbury Brakes did they run with a brake vehicle at either end, in which case you would have to build two but saying that, one could be an wheelchair friendly coach , and the other for buggies etc, The Australian government have an ban on exporting historic artefacts so I would think it will be very hard to repatriate one of the surviving BP 2-4-0'S.
     
  19. JMJR1000

    JMJR1000 Member

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    No problem at all, I found it to be a most interesting read, well balanced too as it's plans for the future while interesting isn't overly ambitious either. Take the topic of extensions for example, they mention them sure, but understandably are very cautious about such a project while also noting that as times passes circumstances for certain projects like an extension can change greatly over time.

    I understand you have to wait for matters to come about for Ashey of course. The Oldbury train is certainly a most excited and interesting prospect, though I had no idea no brake examples existed. What would you imagine would be appropriate motive power for the Oldbury train, might I ask?

    As for the Beyer Peacock, I suspect honestly considering the costs and complications in exporting one from Australia then restoring it, a new build from scratch would really make better sense.
     
  20. JMJR1000

    JMJR1000 Member

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    I can understand the concerns you point out here, certainly something to consider for sure going froward. That said however, that last part you said about Ryde St Johns Road being too popular? Rarely if ever have I ever heard of a railway complaining about how popular it is. Surely the more passengers, the more income and better prospects for the railway, is that not sound enough logic for it?
     

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