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Welsh Marches Express (Saphos Trains) 20/7/19 and 7/8/19

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by 1020 Shireman, Jul 17, 2019.

  1. Mike Wylie

    Mike Wylie New Member

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    Agreed 53 at Ais Gill even with 11 on and not dropping below that all the way from Ormside is a good performance in anyones book. Pity it wasn't 'officially' recorded.
     
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  2. 30567

    30567 Part of the furniture Friend

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    I'm not a mechanical engineer but I'd have expected there to be a set of relationships between drawbar horsepower, gradient/length, load and speed which could be used to see whether any particular performance was outside the credible band relative to other observations.
     
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  3. David likes trains

    David likes trains Member

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    My pictures of this tour, in most of them the diesel is not visible. ;)

    Working past Stokesay Castle.
    [​IMG]

    More fortune with the sun at Pandy, near the summit of Llanvihangel.
    [​IMG]

    Glorious sunshine for the return leg working up the other side of Llanvihangel, The Skirrid dominating the background.
    [​IMG]

    Cloudy further north on the approach to Leominster, where the A49 follows the line.
    [​IMG]

    Seeing distant blue sky in the north I kept driving along said A49 until I reached Wistanstow. Excellent light when I got there but by the time 70000 showed up 14 minutes down it had gone behind a cloud on the horizon - I don't think the train being on time would have made any difference. Some nice colour in the sky though.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2019
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  4. Waterbuck

    Waterbuck Member

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    Great shots, I think we walked past you at Stokesay on our way to near the crossing
     
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  5. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Part of the furniture Friend

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    Probably is but that's way too technical for me. Too many variables and inconsistencies. We go on built up experience.
     
  6. Oswald T Wistle

    Oswald T Wistle Well-Known Member Friend

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    Sorry for the late post, a couple of things cropped up on Thursday and on Friday I was fully engaged on grandfatherly duties.


    The Welsh Marches Express 07 August 2019 – 70000 Britannia hauling 9+POB+D1944

    Mrs W was not a happy bunny when I told her what time we would have to leave home (05.45) to catch the train at Preston (d 06.40). “I must have been drunk when I agreed to that”, timing is everything. We hadn’t “done” the Welsh Marches for a few years, not since 20 March 1982; then it was SLOA’s Welsh Marches Pullman. The train was diesel hauled from Preston, D1924 on the front and D1944 on the back, to Crewe collecting passengers at Wigan NW, Warrington BQ and Hartford. A points problem at Crewe meant that we had to run through the station and then reverse into platform 12. Britannia, waiting at the south end of the station gave us a few encouraging blasts on the chime whistle as we passed first in one direction and then in the other.

    Graham (@1020 Shireman) was on the platform at Crewe and was disappointed to discover that the diesel on the back was to stay (and with instructions to help “as and when”; he decided to join the train but not to time it). Subsequently Graham spoke with the driver of the diesel who confirmed that he did not engage drive at any point. I spoke with 70000’s drivers (out and return) and they both confirmed that they had asked not to be assisted. So the train was 10 plus a non-driving 47, so 13+. Both drivers mentioned that, with the diesel, there was more inertia than might be expected when starting the train but once rolling it was fine. I also received some information that answered my unasked question, “As the train needs an electrical supply why not use the generator coach (and leave the diesel at home) as is the case with the northern trips?” With the northern trips a 47 is close by in the event of a failure (Lakelander – Carlisle/Carnforth, Pennine Moors – Blackburn/Warrington). For the WME, LSL have chosen to take their Thunderbird along for the ride – although this represents a change from the trip with Braunton. They are a new TOC and will need time to develop a modus operandi with which they are comfortable. So today it was steam only on what was a heavy train.

    We were travelling first class in the 6th coach (D), a Mk1 with opening windows - yes!! After the points hiatus we left Crewe 24¼L, Sean Levell was driving, Chris Hall firing and Jim Smith was TI. The service trains on the line were running late/very late/turning back or not at all, so fingers crossed and wait and see for our path. We stormed through Nantwich (24L) at 55.5 and up to 57.1 as we hit the foot of the 7½ mile climb towards Whitchurch (mixed gradients av. around 1/150r). Speed fell back to 49.7 at the mini summit before Wrenbury, then a short descent to Wrenbury (56.5 & 25L) then the final 3½ miles (at around 1/110r) with 42 at the summit. More passengers joined at Whitchurch followed by a fast run down through Prees, Wem and Yorton with speeds in the high 60s/low 70s. Soon we were braking for Harlescott Xng (21¼L). We were due to take water at Shrewsbury Crewe Bank but were held for 4 mins before being allowed into the loop; the water stop took 10½ mins against an allowance of 14. We stopped in Shrewsbury for our last passenger pick up and left 24½L.

    From Shrewsbury, after a short fall, the line climbs steadily (1/140ish) to a summit beyond Condover (43.4), then a short dip to MP5¼ (52) where the main climb to Church Stretton begins. The climb is 8 miles at around 1/100r with some easier sections and includes a mile of 1/90r. A mile in, Dorrington SB (54.9) but then on the steeper grades speed fell away with a min of 31 at the top of the final 1/100r just beyond All Stretton. The gradient eases to 1/252r for a mile to Church Stretton (41) and we cleared the summit at 46.4. Throughout the climb the clear and precise exhaust beats provided a superb background to the shiver inducing tunes being played on 70000’s chime whistle. Next it was downhill all the way to Hereford, speed increased quickly; Marsh Brook 67.4, then brakes on and down to 55.7 through Craven Arms, 73.5 past Onibury, 72.7 at Bromfield, down to 68 through Ludlow, back up to 70 at Wooferton, 72.7 as we shot through Leominster (with a long chime), down to 62.2 into Dinmore Tunnel and out at 70.3. We passed Moreton-on-Lugg at 69.9 & 18½L. A good, but not exceptional, climb followed by some exhilarating downhill running, with a max of 77.1, had pulled back 6 minutes since leaving Shrewsbury. We gained a further minute before stopping on the DRL at Hereford. When traffic allowed 70000 was detached and crossed over to take water, leaving the passengers to “kick their heels” for at least 30 minutes, and possibly longer, until our departure.

    After sitting on the train in Hereford station for 45 mins with the platform only a few, tantalising feet away we left on the next leg of our adventure (14L). Taking full advantage of a slightly falling gradient the Brit was pressed hard and after 1½miles was up to 45.7 and onto the short sharp climb (2 miles @ 1/100r) through Red Hill Tunnel and the summit beyond (38). We built speed on the falling gradient; Tram Inn (56.2), Pontrilas (72.6) and a max of 77 in the dip just beyond, where the climb to Llanvihangel begins. The climb starts with 2½ miles at 1/216/170r then onto the briefest section of 1/300r where we were powering along at 66.4. Next comes around a mile at 1/204r before stiffening to 1/100r towards the summit with the final half mile at 1/512r; we topped the summit at 42.1 after around 6½ minutes of wonderfully, enjoyable chimney music. A dab on the brakes and then we were gathering speed down the hill; Abergavenny 75, up to 77.1 as we crossed the Usk (MP26), Nantyderry 69.7 and 69.9 at the foot of the 2 miles of 1/104r to Pontypool. 69.3 past Little Mill SB and a measured climb up to the summit at Pontypool (42.7 & 8¼L) but back up to 74.8 as we dropped down through Cwmbran (6¾L). We were only 1¼L as we slowly made our way over Maindee W Jn, through Newport at 31 (¾L). Along the relief line, a brief sprint up to 58 past Wentloog Fr Terminal finally stopping in platform 4 at Caerdydd Canalog (3½L). This was my first trip from Newport to Cardiff with any traction (the OHLE is finally looking near completion/a blight on the scenery).

    We had decided on Wetherspoons; the Great Western is just across from the station entrance but rivets and copper capped chimneys are not my thing – no offence. We stayed with the railway theme and opted for the Prince of Wales. When ordering our food and drinks (table 2007) I was asked if, instead of a pint, I would like to donate the money towards a boiler tube – only joking! We went for a wander towards the river and the Millenium Stadium; we were there on 24 Feb 2002 when Blackburn Rovers won the League Cup. We continued around past the castle, where we had to take shelter in the gift shop from an unexpected, brief but heavy, shower. Mrs W had done her internet research and we headed off to find some hufen ia (ice cream); horror of horrors the shop had closed down. Any port in a storm, we had to settle for Thorntons in the shopping centre; Mrs W had Sicilian lemon and I had honeycomb and caramel. A bit more wandering, a sit in the sunshine and finally buy some food and water for the return.

    Back on to the station where we met Graham again; he still appeared troubled by what the diesel might or might not have been up to; perhaps regretting not timing the outbound run. When the train eventually arrived in platform 2, the whole train had been turned – makes sense with traction on each end. (I am not a fan of turning the whole train; on a “there and back” itinerary I prefer a reversal so that everyone gets a ride near the front and near the back. That said it made no difference on the day, it remained 6th coach after turning and would have been 6th with a reversal).

    Keith Murfin was driving, Ian (?) Walker firing and Tommy Rees was TI when we left Cardiff 9¾L. We reached a max of 61 after passing Marshfield on the RL but were slowed and stopped for 1½ mins approaching Gaer Jn. A crawl towards Newport where we were stopped for a few seconds, now only 8¾L despite the checks. Off to the left at Maindee W Jn and power on, up to 32.4 under the M4 and 36.5 as we crossed the Usk and built speed for the climb up to Pontypool. We reached 54 in the dip beyond Caerleon and now for 6½ miles of around 1/100r. 70000 was making all the right sounds as she wrestled her train up the bank, through Cwmbran at 41 & 6¼L, down to 37.5 as we reached the loop at Panteg, then Keith eased back as we were catching up with a Manchester bound train. Around ¾ mile or so trundling along in the mid teens let the preceding train get ahead and the Brit was opened up again but with less than ½ mile to the summit we reached only 21.6. We passed through Pontypool & New Inn at 37 & 8½L but the Manchester train wasn’t away yet as the brakes came on before Little Mill Jn and we slowed to 10 before the signal cleared. We passed Little Mill Jn SB at 28.7 & 10L.

    We now needed to gain some speed with which to attack the 7 mile climb to Llanvihangel; more formidable from the south with the final 4 miles 1/85/82/95r. We crossed the River Usk at 74.8, this dropped to 73.8 as the 6th coach hit the foot of the climb – machine versus mountain (hill). We stormed through Abergavenny at 63 but as the gradient tightened the Brit slowly yielded to gravity (but not without a worthy struggle). On the final 1/95r we held 44.4 to the summit – a terrific climb! Down the hill now and 78 just after Pandy, speed in the 70s and still 70 as we started the easy climb towards Pontrilas (passed at 61) and speed increased on the gently rising/level grades all the way to Tram Inn (70.8 & 7½L). Speed increased slightly as we reached the summit (71.3) before we dropped down through Red Hill Tunnel to our water stop in Hereford; we stopped 9L. We remained on the URL whilst the loco & support were detached and crossed over to platform 4 where a road tanker was parked on the adjacent road.

    We had been allowed an hour to water but, with a blast from the chime whistle, we were away in 44 mins (7E). The Brit was soon into her stride with 59.9 at Moreton-on-Lugg, we reached 64.5 before starting the very noisy climb to Dinmore Tunnel, would we hold 60 into the tunnel? Yes, just; in at 60.4 and out at 57.6. Up the gentle climb through Leominster (71.3 & 6¼E) before pulling into the loop at Wooferton for our booked operational stop; scheduled for 13 mins, we arrived 4½E and left 5¾L). We made our way the 4½ miles to Ludlow and stopped in the station for 70000’s tender to be topped up for the final time. When we arrived the tanker wasn’t there, it arrived a few minutes later, the same tanker that we had used at Hereford. By rail we had covered the 23½ miles in 59 minutes (including the stop at Wooferton). Once the tanker was in position the tender was quickly topped up and we were off 14L; I was now “flying solo”, Graham had left the train at Ludlow to catch the southbound service train home.

    Speed increased on the level and up the 1/160r, we passed Bromfield at 46.8 and still accelerating on rising gradients with 55.4 at Onibury Xng (14L). Speed fell back to 48.7 on the 1/112r but we were up to 57.3 as we hammered through Craven Arms, down to a min of 39.3 at the top of the 1/105r beyond Winstanstow, then using the short drop to gain speed to pass Marsh Brook at 50.7. Now less than 2 miles of 1/112r to the summit, with a chime from the whistle Britannia went over the top at 42.9. We soon gathered pace down the hill; Church Stretton (52.7 & 14¼L), speeds remained in the high 60s and low 70s, past Dorrington SB (68.5 & 13L). We continued in the low to mid 60s before slowing for Sutton Bridge Jn; running around 13L our scheduled 15 min stop was not needed and we continued (now 1E) on towards Shrewsbury. We stopped to set down passengers and in now fading light we left (1E). We were up to 41.6 at Harlescott Xng and on to the 2 miles of 1/117r of Battlefield Bank; speed was rock solid all the way to the top (41.3) – absolutely no problem. In semi darkness we charged along; Yorton (60.9 & RT), Wem (72 & ½E), Prees (69.9 & ¾E) before stopping at Whitchurch to set down more passengers. Off again, with a slight slip, (1½E), quickly gaining speed down the hill with 74.7 before Wrenbury and 72 through the station (1¼E), we slowed through Nantwich (53.7) and made our way towards Crewe. We were held for 4 mins just south of the station before finally trundling to a stop in platform 12 (1¼E).

    Time for a look at the magnificent locomotive and to stretch our legs. The loco change was completed and we made our way in total darkness back along the WCML arriving in Preston at 23.39 (2L) and back home on Thursday at 20 past midnight – dirty stop outs!

    This had been a terrific day out, a loco on top form hauling 10 plus a 47 through some splendid scenery on what became a lovely summer day. I have seen nothing in the data that has led me to believe that this train was operated in a manner other than that outlined by the drivers, i.e. no interference/assistance/help from the diesel. Whilst the 47 added considerably to the overall weight of the train, in my opinion for what it is worth, I think that on the modern railway it was prudent of LSL to attach its own Thunderbird. Thanks to all who planned and operated the train; LSL, DBC and NR. The “cabin crew” were splendid keeping us well plied with tea & coffee, muffins & cake (24 hour shift for the boys and girls!)

    Finally, a bit of information from “Lounge Suit Larry” aka Locomotive Services Ltd. Royal Scot is about a month away, Braunton is having some minor work done and Britannia’s ticket should allow her to see out this year and into next year when it is hoped that work already carried out will allow a quick return to the main line.

    As they say in Wales, “Cymru am byth.” Or is it, “Twll din pob sais!”
     
  7. LMarsh1987

    LMarsh1987 Part of the furniture Friend

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    A bit late with this one.
     

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