If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. toplink

    toplink New Member Friend

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    73
    Occupation:
    Signalman (retired)
    Location:
    South Dorset & sometimes Somerset, now Spain
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I have sent you a private message
     
    Small Prairie likes this.
  2. DragonHandler

    DragonHandler Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2016
    Messages:
    1,286
    Likes Received:
    1,590
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    West London
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Probably not on the WSR, but Didcot's signal box is usually open for visitors when it's in use.
     
  3. Forestpines

    Forestpines Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,681
    Likes Received:
    2,438
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Somewhere in the UK
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Similarly, the SVR has an annual "Behind The Scenes" weekend on which several signalboxes usually are open to the public, with a guide in attendance in addition to the signalman themselves. There are also a number of other workshops and facilities, which would normally be private, open to visitors. Having said that, as far as this year is concerned, it has already gone by.
     
    Paul Kibbey likes this.
  4. Paul Kibbey

    Paul Kibbey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2014
    Messages:
    1,165
    Likes Received:
    1,402
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Land of Sodor
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Hi Ken , I used to visit my maternal grandparents until September 1962 , when I was 8 . After then we moved from Soundwell , Bristol to Corsham , Wiltshire . After that date getting to Watchet wasn't so easy . Whilst in Bristol my mother took me to TM on the local stopping train that originated at Bath Green Park , i think .She would put me on the right train for Taunton where my grandfather would meet me and then onto Watchet .
    I will admit my memory is a bit hazy , I was only a babe , born 1954 , christened in the Methodist church on the opposite side of the road , my mother being a Watchet girl . But as a young'un in Watchet if it wasn't raining I would disappear after breakfast and only see me when I was hungry . I used to get up to some mischief , I had heard that sea -weed was good for the garden , so myself and another friend who I would meet up with every time I visited Watchet would go to West Beach , get as much seaweed in these sacks as possible and at the end of the day we might have as much as 2/- or 3/- between us . Excuse me for rambling . I I thought the barn was used to keep un-sheeted wagons before they went to the mill . As I only got to stay for a week or two at the most I never really got a long term view .
    I'm very sorry to hear about your deterioration in your health , take care and regards to your wife . I still say jam first then cream on top . Lol
     
  5. Paul Kibbey

    Paul Kibbey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2014
    Messages:
    1,165
    Likes Received:
    1,402
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Land of Sodor
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    A few years back I found myself on Blue Anchor Station , can't think why now . I had an hour or so to wait for the next train so I wandered over to the signal box and asked if I may come in . All was quiet for a while the signal man answered all my questions . It then seemed to me that all hell broke loose with Minehead box calling and Wiliton box at the same time . I bade my farewells and thanks for being so informative . So , I'd suggest you choose your moments and hope the signalman is a happy chappy . Possibly speaking to someone at Minehead and making some sort of an appointment might be best .
     
  6. mdewell

    mdewell Well-Known Member Friend

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    Messages:
    1,653
    Likes Received:
    2,564
    Occupation:
    UK & Ireland Heritage Railways Webmaster
    Location:
    Ruabon, Wrexham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    If you are anywhere near London, the St Albans box is open twice a month
    See http://www.sigbox.co.uk/sigbox/home.eb for details.
     
  7. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Messages:
    11,247
    Likes Received:
    17,947
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Barrister
    Location:
    Stogumber
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
  8. Romsey

    Romsey Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2007
    Messages:
    3,619
    Likes Received:
    1,636
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired SPM
    Location:
    Close to Spike Island
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    For Hampshire, try Romsey Signal Box museum -
    http://www.romseysignalbox.org.uk/
    Open on the first Sunday and third Saturday of each month until 1st December.

    Cheers, Neil

    PS Completely off subject of the WSR, but appropriate for signalboxes, try to catch up with "The Signalman" on I-player, broadcast on Radio 3 1845 yesterday evening. It's an interesting view of a world hidden from most railway users.
     
    Forestpines and Jamessquared like this.
  9. Maunsell907

    Maunsell907 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2013
    Messages:
    881
    Likes Received:
    1,965
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    My understanding is the Bluebell in recent years has only produced an operating profit when there
    has been an exceptional event ie opening to East Grinstead and the visit of Flying Scotsman. Dick
    Fearne as Chairman I think was absolutely correct to emphasise this.

    The Swanage AFAIK borrows money from its support organisation to maintain cash flow through
    the winter, repaying said money from the following operating season. ( This becomes problematic
    if during that season an operating loss of £200K occurs )

    The NYMR because of its structure includes donations within its operating P&L
    ( In 2017 donations c. 10% of t/o )

    IMHO if Heritage Railways are to survive , let alone thrive, their operation ie running trains
    and associated activities e.g. shops, catering etc must break even. Donations, which inevitably
    constitute an unpredictable revenue should not be relied on for any essential.

    Tom, you are correct, the WSR Plc has for many years returned a small 'profit' but over the
    last four years at the expense of dwindling cash reserves. Come November 2018 there was
    insufficient cash to cover winter overheads ( and unlike the Swanage no cash rich supporting
    group to borrow from )

    I am afraid the whole Heritage Railway diaspora needs to reconsider current modi operandi.
    Not a role for my generations, (those who remember BR steam as an adult,) I think but the next
    one or even the one after that. The model that we adopted from the 60s to the end of the
    Century is now in need of a major revamp.

    Michael Rowe
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
  10. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2007
    Messages:
    5,844
    Likes Received:
    7,688
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Former NP Member
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    With respect, I would have said the 'break-even' model is the one which has been followed and has failed to generate the necessary cash for major renewals or even significant rolling stock overhauls (some have passed the 'hump' for locos and, if the heavy expenditure was wisely made, should enjoy benefit in lesser but still very significant overhaul costs for some years to come, but the true costs of carriage maintenance are just starting to hit at least in some cases).

    Operations should attempt to cover all running costs and routine maintenance but will always struggle with major infrastructure renewals of 'lumped' expenditure such as a number of locomotives (or carriages) needing 'life-extension' overhauls in a short period of time.

    Precise amounts of especially bequest income are not predictable, but then again no passengers need travel or make any secondary spend, so why is Operating Income seen as predictable? That figures remain reasonably consistent in many cases is due to the same sort of hard work on marketing and reputation that underpins successful fund-raising. The advantage of a membership-based structure is an annual income from Membership Fees and an organically renewing 'market-place' for Appeals (this cuts both ways - new appeals to existing members and appeals attracting new members).

    Shareholders make a one-off contribution and thereafter are an overhead. Share issues are time-consuming and expensive to launch and maintain. Appeals can be as large but still quicker to prepare. Obtaining grants has an element of uncertainty but can release large sums with a definite target and timeline.

    The simple fact that may yet seal the West Somerset Railway's fate is that in neither structure nor outlook can it readily adopt the methods which are successful elsewhere and provide a huge cushion against the vagaries of the tourism market-place. Particularly in the very stormy waters the UK economy is heading for, this WILL prove fatal for some railways. Those already in trouble with structures simply unfit for purpose and a refusal to accept let alone address their issues will be the first to go.

    Sorry to be blunt.

    I also note from Companies House that the weight of all this now rests for West Somerset Railway plc on a Board of just 3 Directors after further departures, at least from the Board............

    Steven
     
  11. 21B

    21B Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    2,944
    Likes Received:
    6,303
    I fear that what the WSR has thrown into sharp relief is that the basic business model of UK preservation has ceased to be viable. To date the business model could be described as:
    1. Making use of mainly low skilled volunteers
    2. providing training in operational roles for volunteers
    3. using residual life left in withdrawn equipment and undertaking a small amount of overhaul / life-extension work on a limited range of assets to stay within the capacity of the small number of highly skilled volunteers
    4. selling rides, refreshments and souvenirs and collecting donations to fund the business
    5. A light touch regulatory environment

    The business model began to fall apart many years ago when it became necessary for a variety of reasons to employ permanent staff. The more you have to employ the less viable the model becomes, because the sad truth is that very few railways can attract enough visitors to cover the cost of providing the attraction.

    It is not always possible to rely solely on volunteers in operations, and keeping staff competent is a bigger issue than ever too.

    What we are seeing at present is that item 3 can no longer be part of the model. Residual life is all used up, whether that is rolling stock or infrastructure.

    There is more competition for the "tourist / visitor" £ than ever.

    The skill and depth of most board and management structures is struggling to cope with the disintegration of the first 4 and the hardening of the fifth.

    We need to cut costs. We need to pursue efficiencies and even mergers. We need to focus on business sustainability and not on extensions and nice to haves. This is (or soon will be) full on survival mode. We need all railways to work together on building up the brand of heritage railways and harnessing the very considerable soft spot the population at large has for steam and heritage. We need to invest in better visitor experiences whilst we still have the capability to do so, and we will all need to accept that not every item of equipment or indeed every line can or should survive.
     
    854tiger, Sheff, Paul42 and 12 others like this.
  12. DragonHandler

    DragonHandler Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2016
    Messages:
    1,286
    Likes Received:
    1,590
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    West London
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Only three directors, well, that should make for short board meetings. :D
     
    Paul Kibbey and Barrie the Beer like this.
  13. 21B

    21B Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    2,944
    Likes Received:
    6,303
    My above post doesn't apply to every railway, but honestly I think it applies to most.
     
  14. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    12,172
    Likes Received:
    11,493
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Can't speak for the WSR, but on many lines, I do rather question just how some timetables are arrived at. Evidence from webcam trawls frequently suggests not enough 'bums on seats' .... often (and depressingly) seeming to follow definite patterns, at certain points in any given day, week or month. Sometimes, weather is an obvious (and obviously uncontrollable) factor, but how much is down to issues such as marketing research and 'joined up thinking' amongst local tourism bodies and attractions (plus Local Authorities) within the catchment of any given line?
     
  15. So, the GM has resigned his directorship with effect from last Friday. An interesting and unexpected development.
     
    tracker and Yorkshireman like this.
  16. Maunsell907

    Maunsell907 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2013
    Messages:
    881
    Likes Received:
    1,965
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I think I must have worded my posting badly.

    I intended to suggest that costs set against operation of trains must net out against revenue generated
    by that service.

    Major works whether Heritage or functioning (e.g. bridge rebuilding ) will have to be carried out
    from other monies ( donations or other activities ). If none forthcoming then perhaps less trains,
    reduced overheads, lighter locos, no steam, shorter route mileage, lower speeds or even
    run as per a US tourist Railway with limited targeted services. etc. etc.
    Of little interest probably to me but we ''anoraks' are a declining breed methinks.

    Michael Rowe
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
    Ferguson likes this.
  17. granmaree

    granmaree Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2015
    Messages:
    541
    Likes Received:
    497
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    A sensible one ..... see the plc statement
     
    Ferguson likes this.
  18. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2015
    Messages:
    6,078
    Likes Received:
    4,893
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Swanage
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I have been thinking roughly the same thing myself for a couple of years.
    I suppose you either need a railway that goes somewhere the general public may want to go for more than a train ride WSR, Swanage for example for the seaside effect, NYMR for the Heartbeat effect (which of course may now be declining). Or are near a large conurbation, SVR or ELR spring to mind or are part of a popular holiday area e.g. Yorkshire or North Wales.
    Whilst the enthusiast population continues to decline due old age, health issues and death are there now enough of the general public wanting to travel on Heritage Railways to fund the operations on the many days a year "Division 1" railways operate?
    I do not know the answer but the business model does seemed to be being squeezed at both ends with ever rising costs on the horizon.
     
  19. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2007
    Messages:
    5,844
    Likes Received:
    7,688
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Former NP Member
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Understood Michael and many thanks for the clarification - I suspect we are saying basically the same things in different ways!

    I think you touch on a potential development I am picking up the start of in the bold section.

    There is an extent to which these have run for years - Santa Specials, dining trains etc. However, this has been in addition to other services.

    I sense that there is perhaps a start in some quarters to move to the idea of much-reduced service levels but with pre-booked and allocated seats on a similar basis to the 'targeted' services that do run. Santa Specials are the most 'efficient' operations in terms of occupancy and yield per train mile! The appeal is seen as an ability to fully load a much less intensive service, needing less equipment and fewer personnel to operate it and pitching the level of service at that for which there is sufficient demand to obtain a premium price.

    For lines that simply run from A to B with no intermediate stops, this is perhaps largely a matter of demand and/or resource management (but if only pre-booked seats were available, it would remove 'walk-up' travel opportunities) but for lines like the West Somerset that can, and in my opinion should, present themselves as the backbone of a day out, taking a break at different stations along the lines, exploring the area or simply racking up the miles by swapping at crossing places, I feel it would be a great shame and would undeniably lose a great deal of the 'feel' of recreating 'the way things were'.

    I suppose The Jacobite, albeit a service running on the Network, is perhaps the model that might be seen as the 'aim' for such an approach, but it would seem that using pre-booked and allocated seats makes any part journeys difficult to justify for the operator (unless spare capacity) and hence impossible to rely on for the would-be passenger.

    I am far from convinced that the basic model of operation is fatally flawed and hence in need of such radical replacement but the modern world likes easy answers that all too readily forget what the actual aim of an organisation is - and preserved railways often don't have a universally agreed 'aim' in the first place!

    Steven
     
    Paul Kibbey, Sunnieboy, jnc and 4 others like this.
  20. D1039

    D1039 Guest

    Again not WSR and again it's SVR, but http://www.krm.org.uk/ signalling weekend is designed to give you an insight into the rules, regulations and methods of mechanical signalling and a unique opportunity to work as a signalman in one of the signal boxes on the Severn Valley Railway when steam trains are running.

    Patrick
     

Share This Page