Hawes branch - Carriage identification help

Attached are two photos of the same train on the same day - a Stanier 2-6-4 in 1959 on the Garsdale to Hawes branch.

These are low resolution camera phone grabs out of a book by Settle Carlisle book by M. Welch and the photos are both by Neil Thexton. I hope this doesn't infringe any copyright as they're uploaded only to help identification. I will remove if it is a problem.

I'm no coach expert, but am thinking that the first two coaches are Stanier non-corridor 57ft and the rear coach is a Stanier corridor 57ft.

Is anyone able to help confirm and give any more detail?

 

The rear coach is certainly Stanier corridor stock - 7 window, could be a TK or CK. The 'tell tail' is whether the windows are evenly spaced, especially on the compartment/toilet side (the side next to the platform on the second picture). If they are, 7 compartment TK, if they aren't, probably CK.

There were, I think more than one 'generation' of non-corridor stock. The brake has a toilet, so is presumably a BTL (this link implies there were no BCLs - http://www.lmssociety.org.uk/topics/gsCoaches.shtml). The non-brake is harder to tell, but looks to have no toilet but 3 first class (wider, '1s'; on the doors) compartments in the middle, so presumably a C as modelled by Hornby and Airfix/Dapol before them (and indeed Farish). Could be Stanier or possibly earlier as I believe there was little difference.

There may be help[ful pages on this website: http://lmsca.org.uk/lms-coaches/

Steven

 

Ian
The above all seems very reasonable ( SVR have a TK and a CK https://www.svrwiki.com/Carriages )
Unless anyone knows different the definitive reference must be :

• David Jenkinson & Robert J. "Bob" Essery (1977). LMS Coaches 1923-57 Oxford Publishing Company. ISBN 0-902888-83-8
• David Jenkinson & Robert J. "Bob" Essery (1991) LMS Standard Coaching Stock. Vol 1: General Introduction & Non-Passenger Coaching Stock Oxford Publishing Company ISBN 0-86093-450-0
• David Jenkinson & Robert J. "Bob" Essery (1994) LMS Standard Coaching Stock. Vol 2: General Service Gangwayed Vehicles. Oxford Publishing Company. ISBN 0-86093-451-9
• David Jenkinson & Robert J. "Bob" Essery (2000) LMS Standard Coaching Stock. Vol 3: Non-Corridor & Special Purpose Vehicles. Oxford Publishing Company. ISBN 0-86093-452-7

A trip to the library maybe ?

 

I've got David Jenkinson's book of LMS carriage drawings to hand, so:

As has been said, the corridor coach either a Stanier TK or CK, depending on if you think you can see unevenly spaced windows. I can't see any 1st class markings on the doors whereas you can make something out on the non-brake non-corridor, maybe someone can comment on 1st/3rd ratio of accommodation for a train like this - is 3 compartments on the whole train enough?

The brake is definitely a period 2 BCL, D.1737. 25 were built in 1930; No. 25248-25272.

The composite non-corridor looks to be a period II D.1734, 143 built in 1931/2; No. 16331-16488 (although some of that series was also given to D.1849 which was a sort of period 2.5 if you will).

 

Many thanks for the replies. Just the info I was looking for and the books sound worth a read.