If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Bluebell Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Jamessquared, Feb 16, 2013.

  1. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    26,100
    Likes Received:
    57,416
    Location:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Also from the e-Nwesletter:

    C&W Update: Wagon Group Progress Report

    The Bulleid wagon has now been lifted off its wheels in preparation for grit blasting. The two Medfits (B461224 and B458525) have been examined and serviced by Laurie Anderson. Both wagons will require some additional work, including needle gunning, treatment of corrosion on the underframes, and repairs to the ends, along with a re-paint in the very near future. Hopefully, the wagon team will be able to tackle this in the next few months.

    Preparation for future work on the Queen Mary has continued with the overhauling of spare brake hangers and brake block carriers. They have had the old bushes removed and have been grit blasted and painted up into Bonda primer. However, on the van itself, a number of floor boards will require replacing along with work to one of the doors.

    The Wagon Group is hoping to make the second Saturday and fourth Sunday of every month its regular working days. If you are interested in joining the group, please drop me an email at david@rhydderch.co.uk.

    By David Rhydderch
     
    David R and Bluenosejohn like this.
  2. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    26,100
    Likes Received:
    57,416
    Location:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
  3. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2017
    Messages:
    1,429
    Likes Received:
    3,559
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    E sussex
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Just as a heads up for those interested, Dave Clarke has been continually updating his C&W Flickr site recently, to the point where it is pretty much up-to-date, now. Some highly interesting and forensically detailed material to be seen::
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/extension3363/page1
     
    weltrol and PaulB like this.
  4. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    26,100
    Likes Received:
    57,416
    Location:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
  5. Hirn

    Hirn Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2015
    Messages:
    462
    Likes Received:
    295
    Gender:
    Male
    Decidedly impressive document: not too long but telling in its details. Reading between the lines seriously made me think on several levels.

    Not at all easy to do such work, not easy to find the people to do it: much detailed planning and oversight needed.

    I have understood that the LBSCR Directors Saloon might be much further on the way to running again if the work needed could have been exactly detailed.

    Does production of work sheets to enable all the jobs under and by the ends of car 54 to be done when a mechanical fitter was not found mean that the
    log jam in the detailing for the Directors Saloon might be breakable? To do it is the obvious follow on job, the skills, knowledge, practical expertise are
    rare and the best way to foster them is to keep them in use. The other obvious comparable job is the Maunsell dining car 7864.

    To do this it seems some sort of drawing office, works planning office, would be useful at Horstead Keynes.
     
  6. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    26,100
    Likes Received:
    57,416
    Location:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Today’s fun. A combined 543 years in that train, only the leading carriage (built 1922) is less than a hundred years old. The loco has run about 37,000 miles in its current overhaul but is still going well.

    B6570931-9F87-4C7E-A525-408EBE601D04.jpeg

    Tom
     
  7. Nimbus

    Nimbus New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2009
    Messages:
    144
    Likes Received:
    198
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    DSCF7242.JPG DSCF7244.JPG Working with the Wednesday Lineside Clearance Gang just north of the tunnel, I got a chance to see the same train in action!
    Nigel
     
  8. Midlandsouthern

    Midlandsouthern New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2018
    Messages:
    152
    Likes Received:
    76
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lichfield
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
  9. A1X 32670

    A1X 32670 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    8
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Farmer
    Location:
    Kent
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Does anyone know when the next Bluebell News magazine is out?
     
  10. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    26,100
    Likes Received:
    57,416
    Location:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Imminently I imagine - copy deadline was 1 March and they normally come out the middle of the following month.

    Tom
     
  11. Phil-d259

    Phil-d259 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2015
    Messages:
    703
    Likes Received:
    736
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    The problem with the LBSCR directors saloon is (and always has been) what useful purpose could it serve on the railway?

    Useful vehicles are the ones which take a priority in the works - particularly if grant funding is available, hence car 54 shot up the queue once it was realised the railway could get a grant from the DfT to restore it with wheelchair access.

    The railway already has the superbly maintained GNR directors saloon which can be used to entertain important visitors or allow the public to experience a luxury ride.
    The railway already has an observation car in the form of 1503 which provides the best views possible.
    The railway already has Pullman cars to provide a high end dining experience

    Also the railway generally has lots of more ordinary Maunsell / pre grouping vehicles awaiting restoration - which are far more suited to the 'bulk trade' as it were of ordinary travellers.

    As such regardless of the fondness lots of people have for the LBSCR directors saloon it has to be recognised that it remains something of a low priority - and much like 80100 is basically being held in reserve in case we lose the other std 4 tanks, the chances of it getting a full restoration any time soon are remote.
     
  12. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2017
    Messages:
    1,429
    Likes Received:
    3,559
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    E sussex
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Much as it pains me to agree with you, I'll have to upvote this for the common sense that it is.
    I still have fond memories of the Directors Saloon trundling up and down the line on Sunday afternoons in the mid 70s, doing "Poison Tea runs", as Graham Ward used to call them.
     
  13. jma1009

    jma1009 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,381
    Likes Received:
    1,637
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    ynysddu south wales
    Hi Phil,

    I disagree with your above post on the LBSCR Directors Saloon.

    This carriage did see quite a lot of use on early Bluebell trains up to 1978.

    The IOWSR has spent a huge amount of time and money and skill rebuilding ex-SECR 4149 (which is nearly finished) but because of the enlarged Guard's compartment for luggage for IOW service in SR and BR days it has a very small passenger carrying capacity. The same applies to ex-SECR 4145. Both lost 3 passenger compartments to provide a large luggage space.

    The IOWSR has also done ditto in recreating a goods train, that does not provide any passenger accommodation.

    When the Mets were withdrawn on the Bluebell, they were kept undercover for very many years till latterly restored. The LBSCR Directors Saloon spent 40 years outside.

    The GNR Directors Saloon is not actually owned by the Bluebell, and has even less limited passenger carrying capacity (20) than the IOWSR's 4149, 4145, or the Bluebell's LSWR 1520.

    If the LBSCR Directors Saloon can seat 20 or more than 20, then it is as useful as the GNR Directors Saloon, and arguably of far more importance to the Bluebell than the GNR Directors Saloon.

    Hopefully, now that the LBSCR Directors Saloon is now undercover and with tarpaulins removed (and not in effect kept hidden for the last 40 years) there will be some considerably renewed interest in this very important and historic carriage.

    Cheers,

    Julian
     
    paulhitch likes this.
  14. Maunsell man

    Maunsell man Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2006
    Messages:
    1,593
    Likes Received:
    505
    Occupation:
    Senior Finance Auditor
    Location:
    Kent
    Sorry that's cobblers. The LBSC saloon was always in the carriage shed during the 17 odd years i was active in the C&W at HK. Protected species....
     
  15. jma1009

    jma1009 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,381
    Likes Received:
    1,637
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    ynysddu south wales
    Well thank you for that and my 40 years needs amending on the basis of what you posted - however this important carriage HAS spent a considerable number of years not 'undercover' apart from a tarpaulin and outside till very recently. Why, if initially thought so important to be keep in the shed like the Mets was it then left to languish outside?

    Cheers,

    Julian
     
    paulhitch likes this.
  16. Maunsell man

    Maunsell man Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2006
    Messages:
    1,593
    Likes Received:
    505
    Occupation:
    Senior Finance Auditor
    Location:
    Kent
    I spent most of the 80s and 90s at HK almost every weekend and after marriage and family caught up kept in touch for many yeats after on the daily goings on.

    The saloon had a false dawn and got sent down to SP for repanelling by a contractor which proved to be a disastrous waste of money many moons back but that was money and time down the drain. Others on here may tell the story but i won't. It was an embarrassment to all those concerned.

    I think it spent a time securely tarp'd outside at somepoint at HK before moving into the new shed but that is way past my time there. she was always a dry and fairly sound body with knackered mechanicals, an interior that needs overhaul, worn running gear, electrics, brakes, wrong windows and gangway connectors and a kitchen that could kill with all the unknown bacteria able to live there. To rebuild it would be to reconfigure it. That was always the issue.
     
  17. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    26,100
    Likes Received:
    57,416
    Location:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I have to agree with @Phil-d259 here: however nice it might be to see, there is little commercial benefit in having the Directors' Saloon available. It is a 40 ton carriage (the heaviest on the railway) that seats only 20 people: not really suitable as ordinary first class accommodation; it can't be run in any dining service (because of the lack of gangway connections); so you are left with a carriage for occasional special traffic and hire, for which the GNR saloon is already available. At which point there is no realistic commercial reason to restore it. If a volunteer group wanted to take it on and had a realistic plan, so be it, but thus far they had been concentrating on other vehicles, notably building up the stock of Victorian carriages and raising funds to take on the Maunsell Restaurant car, amongst others.

    You could also argue that too many special salons gives a poor representation of what the railways were actually like. From a heritage point of view for a railway in our location, probably the single most important C&W project we could do would be to complete a birdcage trio set, which would be representative of trains from the Edwardian era right through to the time the line closed in the late 1950s. If you work with limited resources (financial, space and manpower) then you have to make choices: I would far rather see work put towards a birdcage set and the LBSCR saloon kept safe and dry but not being worked on, rather than the other way round.

    Personal view as always.

    Tom
     
    dan.lank and nine elms fan like this.
  18. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    I have to say "you would say that wouldn't you". Just about every leisure railway has some skeleton or other tucked away and the Bluebell's is this particular vehicle. If "heritage" is to mean very much then this sort of vehicle needs its share of attention.
     
  19. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    26,100
    Likes Received:
    57,416
    Location:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Well, we'll have to disagree. I still maintain that the most important heritage carriage project we could do would be vernacular, not luxury. And we don't have unlimited resources: the reason railways don't have everything running is that they have to make choices over how to spend those limited resources - a choice to restore the LBSCR saloon inevitably means a choice not to restore something else, but that point is inevitably ignored.

    But - being positive about it: the Bluebell's Long Term Plan, which sets the railway's strategic priorities, is due for its periodic revision. So for any BRPS member who feels strongly about it, the opportunity is there to argue the case that the carriage has its priority raised within the LTP.

    Tom
     
    dan.lank and mdewell like this.
  20. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Now what was I saying about the expression "heritage" and the need to justify the use of the term? This vehicle has been out of use for 40 years stored (not always in ideal conditions) on an erstwhile L.B.S.C.R. line which has very few passenger vehicles emanating from that railway. Whether or not this is a "luxury" vehicle is IMHO beside the point.

    As for "scarce resources", these are scarce everywhere. You are no different in this respect from the rest.

    We will have to agree to differ as you say.
     
    robpalmer and michaelh like this.

Share This Page