If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Swanage Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Rumpole, Oct 10, 2012.

  1. thegrimeater

    thegrimeater Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2008
    Messages:
    504
    Likes Received:
    78
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Admin
    Location:
    Huntingdon/Sheringham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Or come to the NNR next week. No timetable yet but I would have thought it will run alone even if its on something light like the Quad Arts
     
  2. ady

    ady Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2006
    Messages:
    2,369
    Likes Received:
    281
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Post office
    Location:
    South
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    419 I'm afraid failed at Corfe and is in the sidings there (valve gear?) The freight has been canned. About 30 minutes down now roughly
     
  3. ady

    ady Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2006
    Messages:
    2,369
    Likes Received:
    281
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Post office
    Location:
    South
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    419 made it back to Swanage
     
  4. free2grice

    free2grice Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Messages:
    5,283
    Likes Received:
    2,650
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired Rolls-Royce engineer
    Location:
    Bath Green Park / Mangotsfield
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    419 has been turned again. It is now piloting 30120 on the 16:00 Swanage to Norden service, as per the roster, running approx. 20 mins late.

    Both locos are facing Norden. <BJ>.
     
  5. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    21,067
    Likes Received:
    20,775
    Location:
    1016
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Having made an early start for the line, I made an early departure from it today. What a lovely day to be there. At one point there were four steam locos in the station at Swanage - one of which was 34072 being shunted in steam for its tests. Hiccups with 419 were managed as best everyone could. Thinking on your feet when you have a tight schedule needs a clear mind and there seemed to be plenty of creative thinking around today. Swanage slippage (with the timetable) was in evidence but hardly surprising given the circumstances. And provided you avoided Corfe (unless of course you wanted to be up close and personal with Scotsman alongside all the other folk) it was a delight to be on the line with all its various and different vantage points.

    As for the Caley, it's a lovely loco. To use the term 'pretty' may be a bit pejorative but it is definitely a head turner in a station. However, for whatever reason it hasn't been able to stand alongside a M7's pulling power even though a 439 and a M7 are both 2P. That said, it was lively enough uphill with two on and looked the part.

    P1100269AB.jpg P1100276AB.jpg
     
    Adam-Box, oddsocks, Fred Kerr and 4 others like this.
  6. steam_mad

    steam_mad Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2011
    Messages:
    646
    Likes Received:
    1,298
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Smaller firebox on a 439 tank compared an M7. Tractive effort 18,680 lbf and 19,750 lbf respectively!
     
  7. gricerdon

    gricerdon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2018
    Messages:
    1,572
    Likes Received:
    726
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Gricer and Grandad
    Location:
    Wallers Ash
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    TE isn’t the clue but maybe small firebox is. Suspect there are other problems though. Just hope it works Saturday
     
  8. steam_mad

    steam_mad Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2011
    Messages:
    646
    Likes Received:
    1,298
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Might you allude? Assume you don't mean problems with the loco (passed Swanage's acceptance exam) so assume design?
     
  9. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    21,067
    Likes Received:
    20,775
    Location:
    1016
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    There were problems with the loco because it did not join 80104 for the 1040 ex Swanage even though it was sitting, ready, by the turntable. That was why they suspended a freight working and ran the Caley in that path at 12.26 by which time they had dealt with the issue. Cannot help with what the problem was but I was impressed that at short notice they marshalled two coaches and this was at the same time as they were shunting 34072 across to the shed. Quite slick given what was involved.
     
    lil Bear and gricerdon like this.
  10. steam_mad

    steam_mad Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2011
    Messages:
    646
    Likes Received:
    1,298
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Yes, I understand that. Interested to see what other problems Gricerdon thinks there are for the loco not managing the same load as the M7. My point re acceptance exam was based on the test run last week with 6 coaches - there was nothing wrong with the loco then, it just had nothing left to give! Hence in what he believed the other problems to be.
     
  11. gricerdon

    gricerdon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2018
    Messages:
    1,572
    Likes Received:
    726
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Gricer and Grandad
    Location:
    Wallers Ash
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    It didn’t start as planned today so perhaps issues developed after acceptance. Just saying that TE isn’t always the best guide to power. Hopefully nothing serious has arisen and it can work Saturday
     
  12. Sunnieboy

    Sunnieboy New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2012
    Messages:
    91
    Likes Received:
    103
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Swanage
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I believe it had 6 on when it failed to reach Harmans Cross, stopped at the bottom of our road. Built up steam for 10 minutes then started possibly with a bit of help from diesel banker. Not sure as I only have partial view of the track.

    Sent from my SM-T820 using Tapatalk
     
  13. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    26,103
    Likes Received:
    57,432
    Location:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    There's a factor in all this discussion of the relative capabilities of the M7 vs Caley Tank which is being ignored, which is that one is a home loco and one a visitor. I in no way wish to malign the quality of the Swanage crews, but if you put even a good crew on an unfamiliar loco with a big load, they will take time before they get the best out of the loco. What sort of fire does it want? How fast are the injectors? Are they reliable? How far does the water drop when you shut the regulator over a summit? How responsive to damper or firehole door positions is it? How easy is it to get into big valve - and even more, how easy to get back out again? There are various factors that might make you cautious about the capabilities of an unfamiliar loco. If you gave the crew a week on it, they'd have the loco metaphorically eating out of their hands by the end, but it is unrealistic to think that a crew getting on an engine for the first time will have the same confidence in its capabilities as they have with a member of the home fleet that they have driven and fired scores of times.

    Tom
     
    mdewell, lil Bear, oddsocks and 8 others like this.
  14. gricerdon

    gricerdon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2018
    Messages:
    1,572
    Likes Received:
    726
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Gricer and Grandad
    Location:
    Wallers Ash
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Yes that’s all very true BUT I remember M7s taking 12 coach empty stock out of Waterloo in 1962 with no problems.
     
  15. gricerdon

    gricerdon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2018
    Messages:
    1,572
    Likes Received:
    726
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Gricer and Grandad
    Location:
    Wallers Ash
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Then the GWR Panniers arrived but the NE men preferred the M7s rather proving the point made by Tom
     
  16. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    21,067
    Likes Received:
    20,775
    Location:
    1016
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I spoke to one of the drivers, not someone who was on the Caley. His view was that for whatever reason it seems not as capable with a load as a M7. That is why the Railway decided to double head, run it on a light freight or with a small number of coaches.

    I'm not going to get into a discussion about why the Caley has struggled. Judging by the comments of those I have spoken to who should know, the folk at Swanage seem just as bemused. It wasn't what they were expecting but you only have to look at the list of factors from @Jamessquared to see that this is not a debate for armchair experts.

    In passing can I observe that the Bo'ness and Kinneil has 1.5 miles of 1 in 95, a pause at Birkhill and then nearly a mile at 1 in 68/58. At Swanage it's nearly two miles of 1 in 76 up to Harmans Cross. So similar hill climbing demands although Bo'ness seems only to run it with load 3.
     
    Sunnieboy likes this.
  17. Sunnieboy

    Sunnieboy New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2012
    Messages:
    91
    Likes Received:
    103
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Swanage
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I know nothing about firing a locomotive but living about half a mile from Harmans Cross station I can tell when a locomotive is struggling. The Std Tank powers up the hill easily. Cannot comment on the M7 still learning the sounds of the different locos.

    Sent from my SM-T820 using Tapatalk
     
  18. nickt

    nickt Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    476
    Likes Received:
    206
    Gender:
    Male
    For a while in the early 60's an M7 would bring an empty train (I think it was the Royal Wessex stock) all the way to Woking at a steady 20mph around noon and stay a couple of hours in the down sidings for cleaning before returning to Waterloo.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2019
    Wenlock likes this.
  19. Mogul

    Mogul Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2016
    Messages:
    324
    Likes Received:
    687
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dorset
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    In wondering why the Caley tank is on light duties another factor to take in to consideration is the temporary speed restriction on the climb from Swanage to Harmans. Whilst working up the 1/78 at 25MPH you have to shut of and drop the speed to 15 then open up again and slog through 400 odd meters of climb before accelerating up to line speed again, as well as you can against the gradient, to try to keep section time. This is very hard on boiler water consumption necessitating more use of the injectors.

    I'll expand on what others have said about Tractive Effort. Although on paper the numbers are similar with the boiler pressure near the mark, the problem is in being able to sustain the rate of steam generation in order to maintain that rated TE. This is in large part to do with the size of the firebox. Grate area & evaporative area. I don't have the figgures to hand but these both look to be considerably smaller on the Caley tank. More injector use further increases the boiler load.

    The factors @Jamessquared notes above also have a big bearing and the TSR is probably the nail in the coffin. If the crews went on their toes, the M7 could struggle with a TSR and its not unknown for the inexperienced or unfamiliar to stop short of Harmans for a blow up.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2019
    lil Bear likes this.
  20. gricerdon

    gricerdon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2018
    Messages:
    1,572
    Likes Received:
    726
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Gricer and Grandad
    Location:
    Wallers Ash
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    It’s done ok so far today working with 80104 and will work a 2 coach 1226 ex Swanage next.
     

Share This Page