West Somerset Railway - Removal of the PLC Chairman and related matters

I would largely agree with you from what I've seen. I think it comes down to how well defined each group's purpose is. That of the DEPG and the various station groups is obvious, and as such there's been no disputes involving them.

But the WSRA doesn't know what it's for, why it's doing what it's doing or what it ought to be doing. Some of its activities conflict with the Plc hence the unease in both organisations. I think this is at the core of everything.

 

You have to have targets in business, (I assume the WSR is a business?) and targets and achievement are one and the same aren't they?

Well they were when I was in Sales - non achievement in my day = the door!

I know one privatised business where the Centre Manager spends the first part of the week engaged in planning for it traffic wise and the rest of the time justify why targets were not achieved. Managing the business was left to the line managers inefficiency unaddressed. That fits with your analogy I suggest.

 

Mr Maunsell,

You appear to be taking offence on someone else's behalf. Has anyone issued you an instruction to be offended by proxy as they are too busy to be offended for themselves ?

I have asked that share the reason(s) for the actions several times now. Your comments suggest that you are in full possession of the facts. This would stop the conjecture and who knows, perhaps even allow you to prove your own point.

 

I think we have to wait for the next Board Meeting, whenever that is, before matters are clarified

Unfortunately in the meantime people are making a lot of assumptions.

I suggest we patiently wait for that event to take place before we make any more assumptions including 'being offended'

 

Entirely agree with this, from the plethora of voluntary heritage organisations I have been involved with over the years (mainly as funding observer) there seems to be a blinkered misconception that just because someone is successful in 'business' then they must be knowledgeable about running every part of a business and this is really not the case (if nothing else the most successful, delegate things and employ people who are knowledgeable!) Its as ludicrous as suggesting that just because someone is a lawyer they are an expert in all areas of the law, whereby they are likely often to be little better informed that the man off the street outside their area of expertise, likewise to use the case in point the fact that someone has attained a high rank in a public body does not suggest any more than they are pretty good at delivering the requirements of that body.

Add into the mix the cascading down of people at retirement age coming from high ranking position who want to 'give something back', (we used to refer to them, possibly unfairly, as the MBE chasers) they are often used to people doing whatever they are told as staff are want to do so and often struggle with managing volunteers, and place them on a board with other like minded individuals and chaos often ensues as ego's clash and people who are not used to others saying 'no' struggle to acclimatise!

 

Even without any further number crunching, your analysis appears to omit West Somerset Restorations, or any of the Overheads of the Charity or Commercial Businesses - including the £70,000 Depreciation. I realise that to non-accountants, the whole concept of Depreciation appears to be one of those things the fiendish accountants do to confuse people, but the principle of writing off a long term asset against income across several years (usually) of use is actually quite straightforward and logical. All part of the basic principle of matching Income and Costs.

It is certainly legitimate to argue about whether costs are 'money well spent', but you can't ignore great swathes of them and then start throwing about accusations of 'apparently missing cash' - presumably, a deliberately provocative choice of words that implies certain things that not doubt you would deny implying if challenged! Membership organisations do have running costs. There must be some duplication of support functions for the commercial activities with the similar activities of WSRplc but that is inherent in the organisational structure of the two.

The Other Income will not be the sale of the coach - that appears on the Cash Flow statement, with the difference between book value and proceeds appearing as a Loss on Sale.

I am pleased to be hear your reassurance that Ian's 'One Railway' 'mantra' was not the reason why he is no longer Chairman - perhaps the first firm statement concerning why he was removed, although you have made others previously! (Even if the reference to it as an 'ideal;' could be read as a far from ringing endorsement).

I am sorry you consider that any suggestion that the WSRplc actions are based on personalities or grudges is an 'outrageous slur' (while clearly being happy to then yourself accusing the WSRA Board of exactly the same motives!) - in the absence of any statement from the WSRplc - not even something weak as can often be the case, the information vacuum has been filled by any available seemingly relevant comment, and it was you yourself who have provided that, stating that Ian had, some months back, blocked another Director's proposals to deal with the problems facing the WSRplc and accusing Ian of taking part in a 'grubby little plot' to remove WSRA Trustees with others, your total disdain for whom has dripped from practically every post you have made here and in many others on the West Somerset Railway Operations thread. Please forgive anyone who might draw certain conclusions as to, if these alleged 'events' are the causes of Ian's removal, what that says about the motives for his removal!

As it is, we are none the wiser after over a week - for outsiders, fair enough, but for Stakeholders (especially volunteers), dare I say 'not good enough'!

Steven

 

To put the boot on the other foot for a moment I'd like to say that I have worked for two companies that chose not to promote in-house and used to hire in all mid and high level management (their mantra seemed to be "You don't need to know what you are managing to be an effective manager"). All of these were qualified 'managers', they all had specific HR, financial & personnel management training yet they didn't have a clue about the actual engineering or manufacturing process or how to deal with the engineers and production staff. Their attitude was ""We are fully qualified managers - you are not so we know best"

Suffice to say both of these companies no longer exist. Both went bust. I refer to them as being 'managed' to death...

 

Mods' warning noted.

It would still help if we had some more factual information about who did what and why. We might then have a better understanding of the causes of the trouble(s) and hence of the potential solutions.

I commented up thread that it had become clear as mud who are the goodies and who are the baddies. Maybe there are no real baddies, but just some who appear to others to be baddies. If it's really all down to conflicting perceptions, they should all be locked up together until they can come to a consensus on the way forward.

 

I have found it useful to contact the individuals - from any WSR organisation - who invariably provide answers to my questions. Perhaps the personal approach is more likely to succeed with views and information that folks are reluctant to post on a public forum. Whilst any replies are obviously a personal view, it does help build up a picture. I like the idea of locking everyone up until consensus is reached but I fear peace would not last. We really do need to change/flatten the organisational structure on the WSR so we don't have a "them and us". That would indeed be "one railway".

Steve

 

An example of why some on the WSR need to look beyond confines of the West Somerset is the reported conversation at Minehead yesterday

A volunteer, lets call him "Eric"(not his real name ) was heard to comment

"I am glad that the Nat Pres Chairman's thread has been closed, that will stop that Bean Counter chap posting about depreciation" (and no doubt asking other as yet unanswered questions regarding so many things and other accounting stuff ) - my interpretation

"What does he know(!) he is 200 miles away"

A fellow volunteer asked of "Eric"

And what if he (Mr Bean Counter) is right?

No reply from "Eric"

I think it is very clear the level of knowledge Mr Bean Counter has.

And I am glad that this thread has been reopened to allow the questions to be asked and guidance offered.

Jeff Price

 

One of the problems not only for the WSR, it applies to most heritage lines I am sure, is parochialism - as evidenced by 'Eric' in Jeff Price's post.
Actually for most readers here the expertise of Bean Counter helps de-mystify a morass of figures. The same can be said of many NP threads; expertise, particularly those with hands-on knowledge, make the threads not only interesting but puts some factual meaning into them.
Just in case 'Eric' is reading the thread again he might consider, for instance, that the taxman, when making his calculations about taxation usually is not on personal acquaintance terms with those he taxes. His professional skills can achieve that.

 

"What does he know(!) he is 200 miles away"

This seems to be one of the problems on the WSR - there seems to be an attitude that no-one else can possibly have solutions or suggestions on how to run the railway and how to structure its support groups unless they actually live in Somerset.


Keith

 

I think 'Eric' needs to look to the wider context that outside perspectives can be invaluable in providing alternative - and workable solutions. In that context I recall that a well-known lineside photographer was complaining at paying tax on his small publication fees whilst I - in a similar situation regarding fees - paid none. After a discussion about the difference in treatment he followed my advice and the following tax year not only paid NO tax but also received a tax Refund from HMRC. Given the experience of 'Bean Counter' (and others of his ilk with specific expertise / knowledge) their contributions could be invaluable if note is taken of them rather than the current internal blame culture that seems to be rearing its ugly head once again. In such situations it is often worth having an outside view which usually has a wider perspective of both the problems and potential solutions.

 

I live 200+ miles from the WSR and there are some WSR people (maybe "Eric" for all I know ) who reckon I am not a volunteer and seem surprised to discover I have a valid WSR Staff ID card.

Whilst there's nothing wrong with non-WSR people offering advice, those same people sometimes seem unable to grasp the background to the WSR's structure and why it is not easy (although not impossible) to change things. The advice and examples are most useful but please don't get annoyed if WSR people keep coming back with the same message. Some of us are equally unhappy/frustrated with the structures. Please be patient as change cannot happen without the governing bodies agreeing to change.

Steve

 

Well I have the answer to all this moderator stuff, we all sought the truth but a small minority kept clouding the issue so from me to the moderators...……………..Good bye, freedom of speech has always been part of the British way of life and if you have to censor what is said then the ranks of the unjust have yet another method of stopping free speech.

 

200 miles or 200 yards, Steve does provide a balanced view of the line in most, if not all, of his posts. Then there is his website which, in my view, does more for the benefit and publicity of the line than some volunteers may achieve.

 

Steve makes some excellent points here.
I spend a fair amount of time meeting and talking to Association members and responding to their written suggestions as well. ('Cos it's part of the job of a trustee.)
It enables us to factor member thinking into our decision making process when the trustees meet formally as we do each month to make the decisions required to guide the charity. So I'll repeat the offer again, members can feel free to contact me to discuss matter of concern about the WSRA and offer advice and suggestions. It's not just the trustees who do everything or who have to do everything. Members can become as involved as they choose (and a lot do already) and many hands make light work.
Despite what is inferred from much that is posted on here there is not open warfare on the WSR between the groups in the WSR family. I've mentioned before we all seem to be able to contribute to running the railway on a daily basis without knocking lumps out of each other.
It is true that our history probably has not enabled us to evolve the optimum structure to run a Heritage railway but we are where we are. Change, as Steve mentions, is not impossible.
There are constant moves in the Association to change things and to move gently to implement the Coombes model, you may all think progress is too slow but there is progress. It is essential not to break things or disrupt the operation of the railway as we change. So each step needs to be tested.
There is clearly a wealth of expertise in the wider community who post here that could assist the WSR. I am unaware that any of that expertise has come forward with offers to help cooperatively to assist the members of the railway family to continue the journey of improvement and clarification of roles. Certainly nobody has written to me with such an offer.
I do, as you can tell, read this forum as it does provide some ideas from time to time in between all the uninformed criticism of the railway and its operation. If you can help, and you are serious about committing the time and effort required to do so, then do get in touch and make such an offer to which ever member of the family you feel would benefit from your help the most.

Mike

 

Whilst some change is urgently need the wholesale reorganisation of all the groups is neither needed or wise. How many time do people have to be told that many of these function well? Change for chnges sake is nover a good idea. This has long been recognised from the time of Petronious Arbterand probably before. Wholesale reorganisation seldom works.

“We trained hard—but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams we were reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing, and what a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while actually producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.”