If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

West Somerset Railway - Removal of the PLC Chairman and related matters

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by rodders154, Aug 14, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Messages:
    9,186
    Likes Received:
    7,226
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Thorn in my managers side
    Location:
    72
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Again I fear that firstly we are playing the man not the ball, and secondly dealing with the symptoms, not the cause of the problem.

    If I had the skills needed to be a WSR/WSRA director - and I dont I would not be attracted by the thought of a place on the board, or a role in managing the organisations
     
    Paul Kibbey, Geoff May and baldbof like this.
  2. Faol

    Faol Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2014
    Messages:
    768
    Likes Received:
    1,875
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Any port in a storm
    Location:
    Taunton
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Yes Richard I did express concern when needed, as to if it was minuted I am not sure it is a long time ago.
     
  3. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2007
    Messages:
    5,844
    Likes Received:
    7,688
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Former NP Member
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Re-posted as originally done in a hurry and contained some embarrassingly but important typos! :oops: (Hopefully now corrected - the dangers of posting quickly when I really should have been on my way to Church!)

    Steven
     
    Forestpines likes this.
  4. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Messages:
    11,247
    Likes Received:
    17,947
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Barrister
    Location:
    Stogumber
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Long ago and far away when a different version of me was WSRA Chairman, I formed the view that the QB dining train was then being sold too cheaply. Most of the season would sell out in a week or two when the tickets went on sale. I applied gentle pressure for the fares to rise and for more trains to be run.

    One WSRA member felt able to write to me accusing me of being ‘on a mission to murder the Quantock Belle’. I sort him out to discuss his concerns. It turned out that I thought the fares should be £45 and he thought they should be £42...

    So folk may understand if I don’t get too agitated (or diverted from the proper course) by polemics on Nat Pres (other social media sites are available)...

    ‘We plod towards the sunlight.’

    Robin
     
    BrightonBaltic likes this.
  5. huochemi

    huochemi Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    Messages:
    2,751
    Likes Received:
    1,393
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    UK
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I think there is a feeling the trustees should be sorted out rather than the membership!;)
     
    Greenway likes this.
  6. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Messages:
    11,247
    Likes Received:
    17,947
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Barrister
    Location:
    Stogumber
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I followed the stricture in the Coombes Report not to stand for office for a while having been seen to be part of the leadership of the fight against the X6. I judged that this year enough time had passed. It would seem that a majority of the membership agreed. It is regrettable that, for a variety of reasons, full focus cannot presently be given by the most able individuals to dealing with the very real issues our Railway faces. I look forward to my service being reviewed by WSRA members and WSR supporters in the appropriate venues. I am easy to find on the Railway.

    Robin
     
  7. michaelh

    michaelh Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Messages:
    3,080
    Likes Received:
    1,291
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Very comfortably early retired
    Location:
    1029
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer

    The last (2017) SVR Share Issue raised £2.4m. That certainly suggests to me that individuals do want to buy shares rather than make donations. I doubt that an appeal would have raised such a sum. I am very pleased to own shares which will be bequeathed (along with the associated travel benefits) to my daughter and grandson to enjoy.

    The minimum share purchase was £100 - those who wished to contribute a lesser sum were encouraged to donate to the SVR Charitable Trust.
     
    Geoff May, huochemi and Greenway like this.
  8. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Messages:
    9,186
    Likes Received:
    7,226
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Thorn in my managers side
    Location:
    72
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Never mind WSR matters though, you are a font of witty and informative discussion
     
  9. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Messages:
    9,186
    Likes Received:
    7,226
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Thorn in my managers side
    Location:
    72
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I hold about 50 Hornby Shares bought by my oldest from his savings when he was about 10.

    The lady at HSBC in Frome was very helpful, as a result we hold the shares directly, but it is more common as far as I understand it to hold shares in a Nominee Account. This means that the company doesn't have to give you all the reports, accounts, votes etc.

    What about an arrangement that allows the shares to be held in a nominee account, ideally run by the supporting charity? I suggest that 'travel privileges' could still be made available to the holders - and I wonder if these should be either time limited or restricted to the original purchaser?

    That could remove a lot of the 'admin' costs and help prevent a hostile 'takeover' for want of a better word.
     
    jnc likes this.
  10. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    25,495
    Likes Received:
    23,735
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I can see advantages, but also issues in the event of a dispute where shareholders are prevented from exercising their preference by the operation of the nominee account.
     
  11. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Messages:
    11,247
    Likes Received:
    17,947
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Barrister
    Location:
    Stogumber
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Kind of you to say.

    Robin
     
    Yorkshireman likes this.
  12. Bayard

    Bayard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2015
    Messages:
    1,826
    Likes Received:
    3,871
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    What we have, though is a membership organisation to which many of the "members" (volunteers) don't belong, that doesn't support the railway in any meaningful way financially and is distracted by owning a commercial company that is, by and large, loss-making. Other distractions include the ownership of locomotives or shares in them and the holding of shares in the Plc. The WSRA needs to concentrate on what it was set up to do, looking after the volunteers and fund-raising. Everything else should, IMHO, be "spun off". I can't see any other way of curing the West Somerset Disease.
     
  13. Forestpines

    Forestpines Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,681
    Likes Received:
    2,438
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Somewhere in the UK
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Given the SVRCT is currently engaged on a major donation-based fundraising project (with a much lower target but over a somewhat shorter timescale), it will be interesting to see which avenues the SVR focuses on for fundraising in future. The online ticket booking & membership payment website includes a CTA for donating to the campaign before the checkout step for every purchase; I happily rounded my payment up a bit when renewing my membership this year.

    (Full details of the campaign are at https://www.svrtrust.org.uk/shopping.php if anyone would like to learn more)
     
    Greenway likes this.
  14. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2008
    Messages:
    3,906
    Likes Received:
    3,704
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    South Hams
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    From Forestpines post 700:
    I happily rounded my payment up a bit when renewing my membership this year.

    I have done much the same, although making a reasonable donation, when renewing my Membership to a working Musuem that I support. I am sure many people do similar things but it is only likely to happen when the organizations involved are good at housekeeping and do not waste money on frivolous or egotistical ventures.
     
  15. michaelh

    michaelh Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Messages:
    3,080
    Likes Received:
    1,291
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Very comfortably early retired
    Location:
    1029
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer

    The target is £275k and it's already reached well over £200k
     
    Forestpines likes this.
  16. 1472

    1472 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,898
    Likes Received:
    2,517
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    That SVR share issue had specific projects to fund which are now well underway.

    As a WSR working member (and WSRA member) I express surprise that the WSR PLC has not in recent times floated a further share issue to finance a range of necessary/desireable projects such as:
    Engineering works at Black Monkey Bridge, Replacement of (say) 2 miles of track, restoration of 4110 to working order. Why not?
     
  17. Maunsell907

    Maunsell907 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2013
    Messages:
    881
    Likes Received:
    1,965
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I have been looking at the P&L which suggests less than £2.50 per shareholder. (probably
    nearer to £1) Certainly, with 6,ooo existing Shareholders, costs of additional Shareholders
    ie whilst postage is a fixed cost, printing, admin etc are marginal, will be less. (reducing per shareholder as numbers of Shareholders increases). I also note that PLCs are increasingly utilising electronic methods to contact Shareholders.

    Some Shareholders I imagine are also encouraged to buy more shares to reach the requisite number
    to obtain a Shareholders travel pass. I suspect the majority of new shares allocated each year
    are to existing Shareholders, so there is no added cost.

    ( I used to make a small donation to the WSRA each time I renewed my membership. As their
    overheads increased, and in parallel their funding activities decreased I elected to purchase
    shares instead.)

    Whether the Shareholders free ticket is a 'sunk' cost or not is debatable but I would currently
    suggest that if you have £100 (or more) to 'give' to the WSR then a purchase of shares is the
    most appropriate way to help the WSR.

    The recent SVR share issue for the Bridgnorth 'improvements' shows the way for the WSR I
    suggest.

    Michael Rowe
     
    tracker and Triumph 2500S like this.
  18. ikcdab

    ikcdab Member Friend

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2006
    Messages:
    610
    Likes Received:
    1,849
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    WSRHT Trustee, Journal editor
    Location:
    Taunton
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Mike, I guess it depends on where your interests lie. If you just want to support the railway in general, then maybe shares. If you want to see a particular locomotive returned to steam then you give to that group or appeal. If your thing is historic coaches, then maybe you look at the trust. If it's a particular station, then you might give to a friends group. Then we have the DEPG and SDRT who also support different interests. That is part of our richness but also creates confusion for the average person who just asks "can I join the railway"? We have done a little work on a one-railway membership, but getting all the ducks in a row has been tricky. By the way, this is a general observation, people will make up their own minds how they wish to contribute.

    Ian Coleby
     
  19. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2007
    Messages:
    5,844
    Likes Received:
    7,688
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Former NP Member
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    It depends, as Ian has said, on whether you just want to 'help the Railway' (perhaps, as Ian also indicted, oblivious as to to how many 'limbs' the 'body' of the West Somerset Railway has!) or whether you wanted to ensure your money was used for a specific purpose (or even not used for other purposes!) If you are a UK taxpayer, it also depends on how 'savvy' you are - one pretty senior senior figure in the heritage world once said to me he would never make financial contributions without ensuring that there was some Tax relief involved - either for himself or the recipient!

    The summary is:

    Purchase of Shares

    Probably no tax relief (Enterprise Investment Scheme may be available but is complex and requires detailed compliance by the Company).

    If issued under an open offer to the public, then in theory, what the money can be spent on is as specified by the Prospectus but in practice, this will have been widely drafted and can only be implemented to the extent that funds raised cover the aims. The wording may also cover running costs during the period of the issue (certainly the not inconsiderable costs of the issue).

    If no current share issue, then the investor will be asked to sign a disclaimer that they aren't relying on the Prospectus and the money can be used as the Company sees fit.

    £100 invested = £100 for the Company.

    Gift to a Charity

    Upon signing a simple declaration (assuming one isn't already in place), £100 donated gains £25 Gift Aid, so the Charity has £125.

    If the donation is made against a specific appeal, then it is Restricted Funds and cannot be used other than for that purpose. At least some charities will keep such funds in separate accounts from 'general' (i.e. non-Restricted) funds.

    If the donor is a Higher Rate Taxpayer, they get £25 tax relief too.

    So, £125 to the Charity at a cost of £100 or even £75 to the donor.

    Literally, you 'pays your money and takes your choice'!

    You also need to look at the 'set-up' costs for the recipient. An Appeal merely needs approval of the Trustees (or such other process as is the Charity's policy for smaller sums), and whatever printing and other publicity costs are involved (potentially Nil if online). I hate to think what a Share Issue will cost in legal and other professional fees and printing but easily £10,000s and these need covering before there is any cash for the purposes of the Share Issue.

    The Severn Valley benefit from a large existing Share Holder case who are pre-disposed to buying further shares, but I don't recall any other major preserved railway Share Issues in recent years. I know of at least one Railway that stopped selling shares even if asked because it was felt the value of the benefits given outweighed the cash receipt.

    Steven
     
    Sunnieboy, Jamessquared, 35B and 4 others like this.
  20. Maunsell907

    Maunsell907 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2013
    Messages:
    881
    Likes Received:
    1,965
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    At the moment I have one overriding interest: to see our splendid Railway achieve a healthier state.

    I greatly admire the DEPG ( to maintain a diesel fleet of such quality with a Membership of c.500
    is little short of miraculous) , the S&DRT (they help keep alive memories of a Railway I had the
    good fortune to travel over and enjoy) and the WSSRT.

    There are as you rightly say deserving loco groups but without a flourishing Railway Operator
    (the Plc ) all the rest is incidental ?

    Michael Rowe
     
    tracker and Triumph 2500S like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page