West Somerset Railway General Discussion

You have to be careful comparing staff numbers in isolation. There are many functions - as diverse as catering or loco engineering - that can be done in different ways. You can do in house and absorb the staff cost, or contract out - but pay an external organisation for the privilege. So high staff numbers but a significant portion of work done in house isn’t necessarily bad; nor is low staff numbers inherently good. The key metric is the bottom line.

(As an aside - doing work in house and being a significant employer can’t hurt when it comes to arguing the case for the value of the railway to the local economy - though clearly that argument should be a spin-off benefit of doing things a certain way, not a reason to do so).

A key issue to me seems to be that collectively, the WSR hasn’t performed very effectively in fundraising. Other railways of comparable size are raising high six - low seven figure sums every year to subsidise the development of the railway.

Why not? Is an interesting question. FWIW, my feeling is that the railway doesn’t seem to quite know what it’s membership organisation is for. Elsewhere, the members are the engine room of both volunteering and fund raising. Essentially, in their different ways, railways form a pact with the membership: you help support the railway, but in exchange we will involve you in setting the strategic direction of what sort of railway you wish to be. My sense is that at a local level, that happens at each station (a symbiotic relationship between the station and the associated supporting friends group); but doesn’t happen at a railway-wide level. So you have a large membership organisation that has little formal role in defining the railway’s vision, but which in turn discourages the sense of the members providing significant fundraising support to the railway. The two issues are inextricably linked.

(Of course, the sense of organisations bickering with each other, or spending significant money on arcane legal battles, is hardly calculated to open wallets. Even if that isn’t true, perceptions matter).

Tom

 

Unique or otherwise it proves what can be achieved Peter. I suggest that 10 x the staff for an extra 6 miles is an odious comparison along with the apparent lack of maintenance of the infrastructure with such a large paid workforce.

 

The words "Oh no, not again" come to mind. Why does the One Railway policy need to be continually undermined, and dirty-washing aired in public? Perhaps, yet again, the plc can bring stability to the WSRA .... although like others, I question the logic of resigning in May 2018, and then insisting on being co-opeted to the board from July: hopefully we will soon get an explanation. The persuit of the shares in 4160 is also a matter voted on with clear mandate by the membership - the strategy and cost can be debated, the mandate seems very clear.

Whilst everything else is talked about, no one yet seems to have mentioned the word PETERBOROUGH in this thread? The recent draft notes from the PDG minutes mention the ex-Midland Railway 7road wagon shed (without traverser) now being made redeundant by Network Rail. Is the WSRA (as the subject was bought up by its Chairman) considering the acquisition of said shed, and if so where will it be placing it? I assume Norton Triangle, as that's the sub-section of the minutes in which it is mentioned.

Whilst airing personal matters in threads seems to do little for the railway or its attraction to fee-paying travellers, visitors and enthusiasts, the development of the Norton site personally seems absolutely at the core of developing the next-stage for the railway, and its sustainability beyond those of us us who vaguely remember steam (hence why volunteer numbers keep falling). Employment is brought up as an in issue above, and in considering the railways contribution to local life in rural west Somerset, skills retention and employment play an absolutely key part in in engaging the local community.

Let's get back to railway matters.

 

Agree with much of what you have written Tom but do you agree we are overstaffed with paid employees & have a distinct lack of forward planning as was sadly proven by the Scotsman visit?

 

I neither know that the WSR is over- or under staffed, nor that it suffers from a lack of forward planning. On the staffing, I would want to understand what those staff do, how others with a lower headcount organise their labour, and how their costs match up. I can easily imagine how headcount could fall without either a reduction in cost or an offsetting increase in volunteer effort. I suggest that would not help anyone.

On the planning, I’d want to understand why the Scotsman event, or any other, was felt to be underplanned before opining. I would then be careful about ascribing cause.

As an outsider, not party to the politics in play here, I will observe that heat is energy that is not used for motion. I am sure there are issues at the WSR; indeed I’d be surprised if there were not. But what I’ve seen this week seems to me to be about people, and the inability if not refusal of some to find a way to get on with each other. They as individuals need to seriously consider whether their involvement at the WSR in anything more than a “work my shift” basis is helping or hindering the railway they unquestionably love.

It was sad that the X6 ended in expulsions and bans for people who, despite their manifest faults, had worked hard for the WSR. I hope & pray that this spat does not head down that same weary road.


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The Scotsman event was very well planned and executed and was a tremendous success. The only problem was that last minute track replacement by Contractors swallowed all the profit and it is alleged it was not foreseen! To what would you attribute to that I wonder?

 

A number of thoughts occur, to which the conclusion you lead is but one. But first I’d want to know whether that track replacement was as suggested.


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All railways are driven by different things, the WSR started as all railways a volunteer basted railway, but things have changed it has turned into a full time railway,
a lot of volunteers lament that happening and hanker for its inception days, as a lot of what was created at the start and the atmosphere has been lost.

The GWSR on the other hand can only operate to the availability of its volunteers causing much deriding form the public "you are never open or just running diesels" to operate full time would need an increase of both volunteers and staff, given what they have achieved by maintaining a volunteer based railway is a credit weather it lasts is open to debate like all railways it isn't the railway of it inception, but if it takes on a full time role that will be lost, although some say it has been lost already as the railway has changed in favour of more commercialism, but that can be true of any railway these days.

 

Are you saying they should not have replaced the rail surely putting new rail in is an investment or should they have used paid staff instead of contractors?



Roger

 

I’d love a paid job on the railway, well after this leg heals.

 

Sorry @Chuffington but I must offer one small correction - the WSR started with paid staff, supported by volunteers (just as now).

Steve

 

Just for the record, The GWSR currently has 5 paid staff, 2 or 3 of which are part time. I understand that imminently we will be employing one or two more (again, I think on a part time basis). As @Jamessquared says though, a comparison is only of any use when you put in contracts and contractors. We have one or two contractors who are often seen around the railway.

On the catering front our cafe at Toddington is franchised out, but on the other hand 3 on train buffets and one "ashore" cafe (soon to be 2) are all run by volunteers. On the loco front boilers tend to be contracted out to places like Tyesley and depending on work, sometimes rolling chassis are too for 10 yearlies. Rolling stock is all done entirely by volunteers, restoration of bodies, underframes and bogies, maintenance and cleaning. So our C+W department numbers roughly 110 members with various work being done 6 days a week.

Edit - we've been open about 200 days this year (not including FPE days) which includes 6 days a week through August, 3 days of mid-week running from April to September (2 days in March and October) and weekends from March to October, plus everything around Christmas.

 

I was pleased to read that the PLC fully support their two directors, recently ousted as Association trustees. It does show that the PLC is not a hostage of anyone.
I liked the Williton photos showing what is there for restoration. The usual distraction when the critics are in town.

 

Well said Ian. As someone who was involved on the margins of sorting out the last mess, I was appalled to read the recent pronouncements, especially as the dispute appears to have arisen between people who worked so well together three years ago to resolve the earlier problems. Guys, get together over a pint or two and sort this out, before it goes any further.

Incidentally, having moved from Somerset to Warwickshire, I am now a volunteer on the GWSR, and am, therefore, in a position to compare the two railways, particularly in relation to paid versus volunteer staff. My initial impression is that the GWSR is VERY fortunate to have volunteers with the necessary technical expertise in such areas as mechanical and civil engineering,. and also a relatively small hard core of key management volunteers for whom the railway is, effectively, a full time job, albeit unpaid. The opening to Broadway has seen a growth in passenger numbers this year of over 50%, which is putting quite a strain on the volunteer staff in operational departments, and I do wonder whether the virtually complete reliance on volunteers for operational duties will be sustainable in the long term. As long as it remains so, of course, good profits are being made, enabling continued investment in such things as infrastructure and rolling stock maintenance. Sorry, my previous WSR friends, but the Mk 1 coaches on the GWSR appear to be in much better condition than some on the WSR.

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I do not see how they can remain as co opted directors . The were co opted via the WSRA. If they are no longer WSRA Trustees then their seat on the PLc is void. Or am I missing something?

 

Not necessarily I wouldn't have thought? they are now directors of the Plc, how they got there doesn't matter. AIUI, the WSRA can only recommend co-option, the co-opting is actually done by directors of the Plc? Unless their director briefs were solely as cross-board directors, then I don't see any legal need for them to stand down.

Hopefully I'm not talking complete drivel!

Always heartening to hear such things about our carriages Roger, especially as we do worry sometimes that some of our coaches don't quite meet our high standard. Yes you're right we are very fortunate to have some key volunteers with the right expertise - our "CME" in C+W is an ex-BR fitter that used to be responsible for whole HSTs, he now looks after all our suspension and bogie dismantling. And as you say, we also have a good number of people who are doing something to do with the railway 7 days a week, even if it's just flying a laptop, that can take up a considerable amount of time.

 

As Louis B Mayer of Metro Goldwyn Mayer (MGM) was fond of saying " I will give you a definite maybe". The problem is that, once again, we have an outbreak of wild, uninformed speculation because none of us have been given a full explanation of the facts. Sadly the WSRA board have kept members largely in the dark, probably for good legal reasons. I have been made aware of all sorts of rumours, none of which entirely fit together, and I have no intention of commenting on them. The one thing I will say is that I feel the WSRA board have not handled matters publicly in the most helpful manner but they may have had no choice. The soonner they tell us the facts that they can the better.

 

Deleted.

 

As others have said, you need to be very careful comparing the GWSR and WSR. Different railways operating in different geographical areas. Whilst the GWR has access to a greater local population for one, the WSR operates 7 days a week from May to the end of September over nearly 20 miles of challenging route over track that was pretty much life expired when it inherited it from BR 40 years ago. It's much harder on the locos and rolling stock which require much more maintenance. The GWR is a billiard table in comparison.
Several volunteers at the sharp end at the GWR have told me it has the opposite problem to the WSR - it does not have enough paid staff to cope and it has run very close on occasion to not operating trains due to last minute staff shortages. Volunteers volunteer when they want to volunteer not always when the railway needs them to. It's also very much the right type of volunteers that are needed. A heritage railway these days, particularly the larger ones, are complex beasts to manage, not least because they are subject to the same regulatory and legal framework as the 'big railway'. The GWR will find it has not discovered a magic formula that has eluded the likes of the SVR, GCR, ELR, WSR etc, and you cannot afford to drop the ball if you're providing a service which is part of the local tourist industry. The more days you run, and the more roles you need to operate your railway, the more risk you run of very short notice staff issues (car won't start, family illness, you're ill/unfit, accident/breakdown on way to work, accident the day before etc etc). Who covers? Key roles like Duty Officer, Signaller, Driver, Guard?
From personal experience, a small core of paid professional staff delivering a well managed railway, including responding to faults and failures quickly and covering holes in the roster, makes it a more enjoyable environment for volunteers to work in. Like everything in life, success is achieved by finding the right balance.