FR & WHR & WHHR News

I believe the average in Merionethshire was somewhat below the UK average in the 19th century.

 

Tom Rolt described No.3's original cab as looking 'as if it had been designed for dwarves'.

Interesting to note that the not noticeably tiny VoR tanks (certainly No.9, so probably t'other two as well) have had cab height increased since privatisation.

 

No. 9 has been both raised by 6" in early BMR ownership days, and subsequently shortened by 3". No. 8 was just raised by 3" and No. 7 wasn't raised at all prior to it's current rebuild, but is now getting the 3" taller cab.

John

 

Does Lyd have difficulty keeping time when loaded to capacity as this week watching the webcams she appears have generally been late into TyB in the up direction although on time at Minffordd. I did not watch the crossing at TyB this afternoon but this morning her train seemed about 10+ mins down and seemed really slow to get going after the water stop. Even by the time the last carriage was out of shot it was still moving pretty slowly.

 

Not usually but it can be handful on a greasy rail. If it had just rained after a long dry spell like we've had lately then it can make for very tricky conditions. Of course it could be late for any number of reasons.

Lyd tends to make a slow start anyway. In my limited experience of driving it you have to let it get up to about 7mph before you can open it up. Otherwise it will just slip, even on a dry rail.

Tim

 

As they're allegedly related, any idea how Lyd compares with the Rheidol tanks in this regard?

 

The original Rheidol tanks were supposedly related to the original L&B engines. However we've now got GWR Rheidol tanks and a beefed up L&B engine.

Tim

 

T'was the 'slipping' bit I was wondering about. Can't say I've noticed any slipping from a VoR loco, even leaving Aberffrwd (where the 'temperate rain forest' was very well shaded back in BR days) with a maximum load. I was wondering about how the adhesive qualities of the two designs compared.

Here's a thought ...... How will we refer to the Collett 2-6-2T's if someone with more money than sense actually goes and stumps up for a recreated VoR No.3 (GWR1198)?

 

They have smaller wheels, less power, and I think they weigh a little more too. So they probably have the odds stacked in their favour compared to Lyd.

Tim

 

The maximum load of the Vale of Rheidol Railway seems to be 6 coaches, L and B 5 and FR/WHR seems to be 8 or 9. Lyd may be at load capacity at times, but doing well.

 

A standard VoR summer rake seems to start life with 4 closed + 2 open, with a 7th carriage addable at need. From memory, in BR days, the 2 'spare' carriages were stowed (uncoupled) on a siding off the western extremity of the loop at Aberystwyth for swift attachment as traffic demanded. The 'spares' seem to lurk in sidings adjacent to the station throat these days. A 'closed' ahead of the 2 opens is usually a good indicator it's a 7 coacher and likely late July or August. The VoR - very sensibly - run shorter trains early and late in the season, when the brake van bringing up the rear indicates a heated train.

The load for Lyd is bound to be less on the WHR than the FfR ..... for trains north of Hafod Llyn or south of Dinas at any rate (remember Mountaineer's heroics when just Caernarfon - Dinas was open?). Even the four coupled 'Englands' can take some surprisingly impressive loads solo across the flat plain of the Glaslyn behind The Cob (pretty sure I remember a report of Taliesin strolling across with 11 bogies) which happened when that section was the only stretch of the combined lines open (for Santa services IIRC) when the Porthmadog bypass was under construction.

 

Isn’t one of the issues that max load often becomes standard load. It seems in the end that this means locos often end up being worked harder than they should and incur additional maintenance costs. (Which is also why the ‘too big for the railway’ argument is nonsense). ie I can recall a trip behind Prince on 7 unassisted, and Mountaineer on 11, and a few with the Hunslets on 9, loads that I think would not be tolerated today.

 

The very first FfR train I saw in the flesh was headed by Linda, running tender first into Minffordd on a down from Dduallt. The trains did always seem very heavy - this was the early 70's when nearly every train seemed to be heaving - and looking at Penrhyn these days, it's almost impossible to imagine trains ever actually crossed there.

The FfR of those days always appeared to be teetering on the very edge of a loco crisis. The only double loco available for 5 years or so, after the loco formerly known as Earl of Merioneth (the one now at the NRM as Livingston Thompson) was laid aside, was Merddin Emrys, which in the years before it's 1988 rebuild wasn't anything like the loco it is today. The 'Ladies' and the Alco were the only other steam available. Prince was out for a rebuild, Princess languished on a plinth, miles beyond the limit of the working railway, in Blaenau Ffestiniog, where my enduring memory is of dog sh*t everywhere round the loco (Blaenau really didn't make a good impression ... on any level), Welsh Pony stood rusting quietly in Glan-y-Mor yard and what was left of Palmerston was still a very sorry sight undeed. Rhiw Goch had no loop or sidings and anyway, it was so overgrown that I never once spotted the location, even when trundling past in a 'bug-box'!

With carriage 116* newly delivered the year after I first met the line, I'm pretty sure the load limits were more dictated by the stock available than anything else!

*then, it was an airless abomination, capable of cooking it's inmates in it's earliest incarnation

 

For those who haven't seen it this page on Ffestipedia https://www.festipedia.org.uk/wiki/Ffestiniog_Railway_Steam_Locomotive_Availability gives the carriage rating for the FR locos on the FR. When used on the lumpy bits of the WHR it is reduced, possibly to about half, or maybe a bit more. That is not to say that the locos couldn't manage more, but these seem to be the normal limits. Linda and Blanche have been hauling the max 8 coach trains regularly week in, week out and keep coming back for more, so I suspect the railway knows what it is doing!

Steve B

 

It's not a question of it not being tolerated. The loads in rule book have always been allowed to be exceeded with permission of the CME. These days it's just not necessary with so many engines available.

The loadings are a balance between what the engine can do, and keeping to time. Linda or Blanche could pull 10 coaches, but don't expect them to do it in a hurry.
Most of the engines have modifications that allow them to do the work they do. Many of these are probably never noticed by the average enthusiast. They are perfectly capable of pulling the loads stated in the rule book. Some engines like Lilla and Palmerston are a bit more rustic. So it makes sense to limit what they do despite them being capable of more.

The Alco is a bit of an odd one. When it was fitted with new boiler it regularly ran with 10 coaches. However it seems performance has dropped off. This is thought to be caused by coke build up in exhaust passages. So the loading dropped to 8.

As for the WHR. They loads are normally cut in half. This is probably a little conservative for some engines but you have to remember that the loco has to be able to restart a train from somewhere like Nantmoor in the wet.

 

I'm aware of that. My point is that I think in the past the locos were worked very hard, more often than they perhaps should have been often out of necessity. With more locos available that doesn't have to happen anymore.

 

I know where you're coming from. There's mention in Boyd's history (so I'd love to know if this is attested elsewhere!), about one occasion from the Spooner era, of Merddin Emrys being tested (??) at 40mph ..... though not, I suspect, through (the old and extremely tight) Moelwyn Tunnel or across Cei Mawr.

Was 40mph feasible on the old passenger line east of Dinas Jnc? Can't think of too many other places on the FfR where you'd even think about pulling a stunt like that.

.... and I'm assuming it was some sort of test. Given what passed for brakes on the double engines back then, I can't imagine any other reason to flog your fairlie in public.

 

No idea. There is/was one bit that I think was known as 100mph straight but I can’t think where that was.

when I travelled behind Prince on 7, it was the second steam service of the day and it was August. I find hard to imagine that if I pitched up at Port this August I would find Prince on a seven coach service train doing three trips unassisted. Likewise, the bug boxes aren’t being used to strengthen service trains daily anymore.

This is a good thing, much as I like Prince, and much as I like bug boxes.

 

Between Penrhyn and Rhiw Goch.

 

I'll confess I've never thought of that stretch in terms of 'galloping ground'!

Back in the early 70's, they seemed to pop up on every working. Things were so busy then that you got the impression if it could run, it was being run .... locos as well as carriages! The Sunday services (booze, for the consumption of....) were a great money-spinner back then, when pubs (though not Working Men's Clubs!) in N Wales stayed firmly shut every Sunday.

Today's visitor, assuming they so much as noticed Dduallt Station, would be astounded by the thought of a couple of hundred souls decamping into the queue for an ice-cream on a remote hillside about every 45mins!

Question: An early (pre-1968) preservation era clip I watched t'other day showed left hand running at T-y-B. Does anyone please know how long such an abberant state of affairs was tolerated? To my certain knowledge, traditional FfR right hand running certainly held sway again by 1972.