West Somerset Railway General Discussion

The evidence, viewed through the prism of this thread, is mixed. I look forward to @nine elms fan being proved wrong.

 

I know that this is not 'red hot news' but it may have been missed by some.

On Saturday 26th May, 35028 'Clan Line' is hauling an excursion from Paddington to
Minehead.

The loco will not come off at Bishops Lydeard but run over WSR metals, smoke box first, to
Minehead. As the loco is too long for the Minehead turntable she will return the train, tender-first,
to Bishops Lydeard where a Class 67 diesel will take over for the return leg to Paddington.

Exact timings will appear in due course.

Stef.

 

In the interests of strict accuracy, Clan Line is not too long for the Minehead turntable, but too heavy.
Pathway on the WSR will be 13.20 from BL, returning from Minehead at 17.50.
Expected to be load 12. This will be Clan Line's very first visit to the WSR. The train starts from Paddington circa 08.10, with pick-up at Slough and Reading. Tickets still available from UK Railtours.
Clan Line will be staying at Bishops Lydeard until the afternoon of Tuesday 29th May, when it heads to Bristol in readiness for the following Sunday's 'Torbay Express'. It is planned for the loco to be on display in the bay platform at BL on Sunday 27th May from late morning to late afternoon. Please come and say "hello".

 

Out of interest what is the weight limit is it 90 ton?
I was on a tour where Tangmere was turned but that of course is below 90 ton.

 

Only 90 tons if you split loco and tender! An original West Country class is nominally around 128 tons in working order, though it obviously varies considerably depending on how much coal and water is still in the tender. A rebuilt Merchant Navy is nominally about 151 tons, with the same caveat, and also with the caveat that the tenders in any case varied between members of the same class, so you may get a couple of tons variation one way or the other even in the nominal weights.

Tom

 

Plus D1010 is out on diesel diagram, sounds like a good day out

 

Posting 4907 ( by Aberdare) and others at that that time (which were essentially concerning the two types of ex GWR installed turntables) dealt with this issue.

In brief the deflection at Minehead when the loco enters the table is key, a function of locomotive weight and length. (moment). A Brittania and King are the upper limit. The King because of its heavy weights on the coupled wheels, the 'Brit' whilst lighter on the coupled wheels is longer and overall heavier. My memory says a Brit weighs 94 tons, without tender, a rebuilt MN 98 tons.

A 65 foot diameter table, if weight is not an issue, will lengthwise, with care, accommodate any UK loco; the longest I believe are the Princess Royal 4-6-2s, which have a wheelbase of 63 feet 10 inches. However life was easier with a 70 foot table !

Michael Rowe

 

Tangmere + tender has certainly used the turntable at Minehead.
The West Somerset Steam Express, September 2012:

 

Isn't the Triangle available for use?

 

Aldfort, nice to see you back, have you just come out of hibernation?

DJB.

 

I’ve set out the numbers previously.

In fact the WSSRT holding drift gently upward as executors of deceased members donate their holding. Modesty prevents me identifying the author of the letter usually sent out in these circumstances.

Or are you implying that the WSR plc is to put a motion before the shareholders to increase the authorised share capital? It will only matter if fundraising is rather less lacklustre in future. In recent years we have had uninspiring projects and ‘campaigns’ only in the single-sheet-of-paper sense put before shareholders.

Robin

 

Probably OK but the engine is required at nearby Bristol for the Sunday Torbay Express

 

Hello Dennis,
Do beavers hibernate? I've been beavering away! (Some of you will leap to the wrong conclusion as a result of this post. -Shame on you all. )

Seriously, I try only to post when there is something noteworthy to say or to correct a mistaken impression.

 

Logistically that may prove difficult to make work. The turntable and the triangle are 23 miles apart.
Things that do work include:
Through working of a charter to MD, tuning on the turntable at MD and return via NF to NR metals.
Working the charter into NF with a WSR loco then taking over for the trip to MD and back to BL. This gives time to turn the incoming charter loco on the triangle, bring it to BL and service it ready for departure via NF.
As above but with the charter loco working through to BL before it comes off. It can then be serviced and run light to NF for turning and then return to BL to take over it's train before departing via NF.

 

Sorry, I was guilty of accepting the wording on UK Railtours website.

Stef.

 

Just wondering if there was any means of turning Clan Line other than the T/ Table as it is over the weight limit.
That is if it needs turning subject to next booked turn on NWR.

 

I don' think they like engines to go backwards on the network. They always arrive smokebox first and leave smokebox first.

 

They can go tender first, but subject to a reduced speed limit if the tender is the leading vehicle, which may in turn make pathing more complex.

Tom

 

Yes 40 mph if tender first I think which makes them a potential bottleneck.

 

I think it's 45 mph. Interestingly the Railway Group Standards GA/RT3440 has no reference to tender first running. (But then this document specifies <35 mph for locos with coupled wheels < 5 feet diameter. Presumably 48151 has a special dispensation based on 'balancing' )

My friend Keith Farr, recently, wrote one of his Practice and Performance articles in the RM on tender first running. Needless to say there were many examples in the past > 45 mph. Some of the BR Standard tenders (and later LMS Ivatt designs) were designed to provide a good look out for the footplatè crew when running tender first.

My own fastest tender first experience was in 1965 when a Class 2 diesel failed between Larbert and Glasgow Buchanan Street with the front portion of the afternoon departure from Inverness. A Stanier 5 4-6-0 (44717) rescued us and attained 55mph. The rescue was such that our overall loss of time from Larbert (the last scheduled stop) to Buchanan Street was only 31 minutes.

There is a story (perhaps apocryphal) that Mr Bulleid was challenged whilst talking to Eastleigh enginemen re a statement that his Q1 0-6-0s ran equally well smokebox or tender first. To prove the point Bulleid accompanied a crew light engine to Basingstoke and back, attaining 75 mph tender first in the Down direction. He reportedly on return said as an aside to one of his assistants "I shall not be doing that again"

We are often criticised for running locos tender first on 'Heritage' Railways. In practice there were many cases when there was no option, in the absence of a turn table, but to run one direction tender first on many Branch Lines. Sometimes the results were quite bizarre. The mid day Eastborne Hailsham return service was for a time rostered to the loco that had worked into Eastborne with the early morning newspaper/passenger service from London Bridge. This often resulted in a West Country/Battle of Britain working tender first with two coaches Hailsham to Eastborne. At least the crew benefited from a tender offering reasonable visibility unlike the crews at the opposite end of the Country working the Alnmouth/Alnwich branch with a 9F and a high sided tender.

However we should not forget that WSR footplate crews have the current challenge, is that the appropriate word , of the S160 tender. (Not I think designed with good visibility in mind !)

Michael Rowe