S&D Midsomer

Its in this months Steam Railway that the Somerset and Dorset Railway Trust at Midsomer norton are having trouble getting HMRI approval to run passengers trains, this has been put back to April 2009.

They have bent over backwards to meet the request for stop blocks and earth works at the north end of the station.

Also they seem to be having trouble with a footpath which runs along the route, SDRT are trying to acquire land next to the line to build the path, so a double track line can be laid.

Anyway my question is:

What is the master plan for Midsomer? Reinstatment of double track to Chilcompton and beyond?

Cheers.

37422.

 

Is this footpath or the cycle track that Sustrans grabbed the trackbed for?

 

I dont think so, that was through the double tunnel and on to Bath i think.

37422.

 

Their blog contains some slightly outlandish statements such as "The Leading sustainable transport charity in Wessex" and

"Some people aren't sure what we're about at the S&D. We're not about restoring just a dozen miles of single track, running industrial locos, turning old stations into retail centres or running trains full of mixed-liveried vehicles full of people on a short trip from nowhere to nowhere. It's about bringing back the S&D, the WHOLE S&D, as a working steam railway through the best scenery in England."

A bit of running before you can walk?

Full blog is here: http://somersetanddorset.blogspot.com/ linked in from http://www.sdjr.co.uk/

 

Trying to pretend that they are going to restore the whole line, including double track, lowers my opinion of them massively. Its one thing to have aims, but to achieve something as difficult as a sustainable steam operation you also have to be realistic and use common sense. I read they were trying to block the creation of a S&D cyclepath on the double track section of line because they aim to rebuild both lines, this seems both arrogant and a sure fire way to get local people's backs up - there's enough room for both and if they ever were capable of double-tracking they could certainly afford to build a new path alongside. As it turns out they cant even get their current line operational.

Sorry to be so damning but i have a real fear some new generation lines are set up or planned based on the fantasy of a small group of people, the sites chosen are done so for financial and romantic reasons rather than practical ones. If you had long-term ambitions (which you need to attract new members, when the initial ones are too frail) then you need a base from where you can quickly build facilities and extend to sustain interest - needing a multi-million bridge replacement at one end and digging out a filled in double-track cutting at the other suggests that unless they win euromillions they arent going anywhere very quickly.

Am i being too pessimistic?

Chris

 

Oh come on...that blog is clearly the work of just one person. Don't judge an entire group on one nutcase.

 

Fair enough but ive heard these claims before. Is there anyone from the group who can state the line's (achievable) short/mid-term aims?

Chris

 

No, you're not being pessimistic Chris. It is a fact that these days there are other groups (like Sustrans) around, who, like it or not, are seen by many to have a legitimate cause in promoting cycling and leisure activities using disused railway lines. No one should be as arrogant as to assume that because a piece of land was a railway once, it can be turned into one again with no regard to anyone else. Cooperation, winning hearts and minds and compromise is the best and most likely strategy to succeed. OK, the line may well have been double track once, but surely it is better to have a single track re-creation, with room for other interests (i.e a path beside) than to stubbornly insist on a dual line and probably fail to get anywhere. All this said without even going into the cost. Talk to anyone at the GCR about the cost of a properly signalled double track line!
I think the S&D group need to appoint a publicity officer (if they don't already have one) who controls all communication agreed by the group, and discourages random comment on blogs. Ill considrered ramblings could do more harm than good. In the 6024 Preservation Society we have a proper publicity communications procedure, and it works very well, and has been tested to that effect in recent months. Loose cannons firing off statements on 'behalf of the society' would have made matters much worse.

 

To quote from the bottom of this individual's blog:-

"This blogsite is a reflection of my personal views and aims for the S&D and should not be considered a guide as to particular policy or ambitions of any or all of the groups currently restoring and preserving the S&D!"

They should really find out what the word 'we' means...

 

If the whole of the S&D had been given to a preservation group back in the 60s, complete with some locos & coaching stock, I doubt very much that many miles of the route would have been operating as a preserved railway 40 years later.

The cost of maintenance of stations & structures would have been too much. Stretches of double track would probably have been singled.

Nice to dream about what could have happened if money was no object.

 

In reply to Cardiff Canton's originally query I shall attempt here to put many ghosts at rest. As the founder working member of the Midsomer Norton Project 13 years ago and based on the rate of gradual membership, financial and volunteer increase etc, I predict it will take until 2015 for the mile of S&D south from Midsomer Norton to be restored in phases as follows......

phase 1) extend the down main by 1000 feet, doubling its current length. Complete the signal box, greenhouse and stable museum. Begin passenger top and tail diesel and steam or diesel+autocoach or steam+autocoach services. Build parallel but off-formation path for walkers etc on the up (field valley) side of the line.

phase 2) extend the down main to half a mile and lay non-original down trailing refuge siding for p-way engineers train.

phase 3) extend down main to the base of Chilcompton Tunnel Cutting, the infill being 170,000 tons (with dimensions of fill being 1145 long by 30-100 wide by 44 feet deep). Build 2 coach Somervale Halt on the down side and lay run round loop. Dispense with top and tail working and or autocoach working.

phase 4) build 2 road sidings leading to 2 road shed in the field tucked in behind the 4 acre wood on the up side, shielded by a tree lined bung from the southern fringes of the town in the valley below. Transfer all service, overhaul, storage and restoration of essential stock and locos to the new shed, enabling Midsomer Norton to become more of a period wayside station again.

phase 5) relay the mile of up main, with pole route and commence 2 train double track running, eg 80xxx tank, Ivatt Mickey Mouse/Jinty on high summer weekends with provision for guest tender engines available and finally worth the expensive of hiring-in.

Whatever else anyone says or hears of is completely irrelevant unless substantial lottery money becomes available.

Only then can attention be turned to digging out the 172,000 tons of infill and/or building a new single or double track 110 feet span bowstring or box girder bridge on limestone clad concrete abutments back over Silver Street.

Of course the gentleman at Masbury may (should he choose to) have two miles of running line by then, by laying north half a mile to Masbury summit and financing the rebuilding of Croscombe Road Bridge and Corps cattle drove and head south back to windsor hill tunnels. Only time will tell......

 

Slightly off-topic, but Bath is currently home to ~100 painted life-size pigs that are to be auctioned in October in support of the Sustrans 2 tunnels project. Mind you, and the rate they are going missing, their won't be much to auction!

I used to live in Midsomer Norton - first house when I took my current job in Bath. I popped back a few years ago when they had a Jinty on site. All the people I talked to had resonable aims and ambitions. I wish them luck.

Neil.

 

In reply to Cardiff Canton's originally query I shall attempt here to put many ghosts at rest. As the founder working member of the Midsomer Norton Project 13 years ago and based on the rate of gradual membership, financial and volunteer increase etc, I predict it will take until 2015 for the mile of S&D south from Midsomer Norton to be restored in phases as follows......

phase 1) extend the down main by 1000 feet, doubling its current length. Complete the signal box, greenhouse and stable museum. Begin passenger top and tail diesel and steam or diesel+autocoach or steam+autocoach services. Build parallel but off-formation path for walkers etc on the up (field valley) side of the line.

phase 2) extend the down main to half a mile and lay non-original down trailing refuge siding for p-way engineers train.

phase 3) extend down main to the base of Chilcompton Tunnel Cutting, the infill being 170,000 tons (with dimensions of fill being 1145 long by 30-100 wide by 44 feet deep). Build 2 coach Somervale Halt on the down side and lay run round loop. Dispense with top and tail working and or autocoach working.

phase 4) build 2 road sidings leading to 2 road shed in the field tucked in behind the 4 acre wood on the up side, shielded by a tree lined bung from the southern fringes of the town in the valley below. Transfer all service, overhaul, storage and restoration of essential stock and locos to the new shed, enabling Midsomer Norton to become more of a period wayside station again.

phase 5) relay the mile of up main, with pole route and commence 2 train double track running, eg 80xxx tank, Ivatt Mickey Mouse/Jinty on high summer weekends with provision for guest tender engines available and finally worth the expensive of hiring-in.

Whatever else anyone says or hears of is completely irrelevant unless substantial lottery money becomes available.

Only then can attention be turned to digging out the 172,000 tons of infill and/or building a new single or double track 110 feet span bowstring or box girder bridge on limestone clad concrete abutments back over Silver Street.

Of course the gentleman at Masbury may (should he choose to) have two miles of running line by then, by laying north half a mile to Masbury summit and financing the rebuilding of Croscombe Road Bridge and Corps cattle drove and head south back to windsor hill tunnels. Only time will tell......

 

I'm a relative newcomer to the Midsomer Norton project and haven't unfortunately been able to spend much time down there due to the fact that I've been completing the last year of my degree, but I have to say I'm suitably annoyed by some of these derogatory comments on this particular thread, so feel motivated to respond.

First of all, the blog was set up by a chap who, besides his interest in railways, is also a keen environmentalist and is especially concerned about oil depletion (peak oil). Some of the comments may therefore sound a bit outlandish yes, however, despite the fact that I personally am reluctant to go so far as Steve has done in predicting a possible likely future when oil has seriously declined, I would agree with him to some extent in that the situation he describes is not totally implausible. Therefore, it is, in my view, entirely legitimate to suggest the possibility of the line being rebuilt in its entirety if a situation develops whereby oil-based forms of transport grind to a halt. On the other hand of course, this approach does have the disadvantage of putting one's own personal stamp on the wider organisation, but IT DOES SAY somewhere on the blog that the comments made are Steve's own views and therefore not necessarily representative of the Trust as a whole.

Furthermore, Steve has actually done the Trust an enormous favour by setting the blog up in the first place, despite the occurrence of his own personal views however you may regard them. Please remember where Midsomer Norton is, considering its location its not surprising that the amount of regular volunteers who are active on site can be counted on two hands. For the amount of members that the Trust has actively working on site, the achievements in my view have been considerable. If therefore, Steve hadn't come along and set up the blog, who would have done? Any of you lot? I doubt it. The reality is there wouldn't have been a blog at all, and the blog in my view has actually worked wonders and does a perform a vital service in maintaining an active online interest in the site.

Next, the Sustrans path. I'm not entirely knowledgeable on this, but from what I've heard there is some agreement that Sustrans should have a cyclepath running along the line, but this is or could be consistent also with the line being laid double track. I might be wrong, but thats the impression I've got so far from my rather limited (at present) perspective.

Also, my impression is also that the relaying of track up to Chilcompton Tunnel is realistic, if perhaps the time frame was perhaps a bit optimistic. Serious discussions have also been conducted with regard to finding a bridge to cross over Silver Street, again this may take some time, but appears to be realistic.

With regards to the comment concerning someone acting as a central communication point for the Trust, the main problem appears to me to be that there aren't that many of us, and we all have busy lives to lead too. A central spokesperson of course is great, but that to my mind is a luxury that larger societies have, which we unfortunately cannot share, as yet.

My request would be to refrain from judging the Trust purely on the strength of the website. Why not actually take the trouble to come down to Midsomer Norton to have a look and see what we've done? That perhaps might reduce some of the back biting that appears to be going on here.

In the last year - signal box completed, new platform surfacing, work on restoring the diesel shunter progressing well, work on an early 20th century coal wagon going well, safety works completed at the Silver Street end, badly needed work to support the rear of the up platform going ahead well, at least two volunteers aiming to start work on rebuilding the greenhouse sometime this year or early next (basically me and Steve) - thats not bad really considering how many of us there.

So please, less of the sniping in future. Thanks.

Robin, Bath [-X

 

Interesting and thought out reply except the bit about numbers of volunteers being counted on two hands sort of puts it into perspective. There might be good progress with a resurfaced platform and a (nearly) repaired diesel shunter but this does not mean that a double track railway will suddenly appear. If the peak flow of oil has arrived and supply is now in decline, I suspect that there may be other pressing needs for most of us to worry about other than rebuilding the S&D. Things like law and order and where the next meal may come from to name but two...

10 hard working bods will never ever rebuild anything meaningful alone but imagine what another 10 bodies in the C&W of the WSR railway will do. Thats another restoration gang on most lines C&W departments and in 5 years another pre-nationalisation carriage on the train. That is a worthwhile difference.

These worthless noddy schemes of a siding with a ruston shunter pulling the mortal remains of a Gat-ex coach in rust and primer colours are in the long term probably doomed to failure with a terminal lack of human and financial resources.

 

What you are saying is pretty much ridiculing the majority of smaller railways with few volunteers.

What these people are doing is meaningful to them but it is better to have 10 hardworking volunteers than hundreds of so called volunteers who stand around doing nothing and claim to have done everything.

I have found that more often than not some of the smaller establishments produce a better experience because the volunteers are working close together not seperated by many miles.

 

These "bods" have done a superb job in restoring a derelict mess into a fine local attraction, and as long as they don't overstretch themselves, then a brake van or coach, hauled by a small industrial, is perfectly achievable with 10 volunteers. Just because it doesn't run for 20 miles doesn't mean it is meaningless, unless you think all local museums should be closed down in favour of the huge ones in London, York etc? Also, Midsomer Norton to the WSR is quite a trek...do you really think it is realistic/affordable for people to travel a long way to volunteer? The NYMR is having serious volunteer problems for this very reason, and they're hardly a "noddy scheme".

 

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Worthless noddy schemes? Ha, ha, if thats not arrogance I don't know what is. I think that the local council and the Heritage Lottery scheme would beg to differ to be honest, since we've received support from both. In general, the support for the Trust in the locality appears to me to be fairly high, and we're far from done yet.

\/

 

Mmmm - from all 10 of you. Bet the Severn Valley are ******* themselves as we speak. Its not arrogance, just common sense. The little schemes pop-up one by one and now they seem to be disappearing one by one. Why don't you do something that will make a difference to the world of preservation and restore or help rebuild something useful like a pre-nationalization carriage, rare wagon or long forgotten loco or even help extend a mainstream line that is likely to survive for your grandchildren to enjoy? How much time, effort and money has been squandered on schemes like friends of Riccerton Junction, Bramley Line and so on that have got absolutely nowhere? Building a double track railway, clearing 170,000 tonnes of fill and installing infrastructure an operation of a railway business is not going to be completed by 10 men even if they are good, or even related to Superman.

 

Please explain how big the National Lottery grant is... Just because Mr Patel at the qwicky-mart sayes hello when you buy your daily Mirror in the moring and "good luck that may be a good idea", that doesn't mean the local are supporting it. Hard facts and verifyable data do the talking. Please tell the world what the official surveys are indicating...

err -I don't come from Somerset and have never worked at the WSR. It was an example.