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Current and Proposed New-Builds

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by aron33, Aug 15, 2017.

  1. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    I still say instead of the railmotor type go for the Johnson 0-4-4 tank and create a LMS push pull!
     
  2. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Wouldn't dream of stopping you! :)
     
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  3. D6332found

    D6332found Member

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    Railmotors survive, sort of. There is the Jersey Sentinel one but it will be new build when finished and the old scrapped. Then there is a Midland one, and the GNOSR which had the fascinating Cochrane vertical boiler, unique for this if nothing else.And the GWR, of course, the ESR Sentinel at Quainton and some Sentinels in Sri Lanka. Perhaps an LNER type Clayton lingers in the Sahara...... Rumours of a Furness trailer in a bungalow?!?! The L&Y one would be ideal for a small line, it looks like a "train" Rebuild all thesde and yuo have a great selection
     
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  4. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    The Jersey one ?? If that's the ex-Jersey Eastern (engine) unit which ended up at Standard Brick & Sand in Surrey, I thought that was scrapped years ago! I do seem to recall one of the bodies from one of the JR&T examples survived in garden shed form. I had thought the only surviving loco (from either line) was the 3'-6" gauge Barclay 2-4-0t formerly "La Moye" flogged off before closure as too heavy for Jersey metals, and currently plinthed in South Africa. If I'm wrong about the JER sentinel and it's still in existance ..... stand by for happy face!

    I also knew of the 2'-6" gauge survivors in Sri Lanka (three I believe, one the subject of repatriation efforts, one liable to be conserved on the island and one all but disintegrated). There was an article in Narrow Gauge World (I think) last year.

    Rumours of survivals in Egypt's western desert aren't unknown (whisper it quietly, but the words 'Dean' and 'Goods' have been murmered from time to time), but I've always suspected it's a cunning Egyptian ploy to get British gricers to dig one whole bunch of sand clear of the still in-situ railway which is under that lot somewhere. I can see the GCSE Exam question now "If it takes 3 gricers with two metal detectors six weeks to sweep half a mile of desert railway, how long will it take 7 gricers with 5 metal detectors to check 500 yards either side of 60 odd miles"!

    The Cochrane boiler is news to me too (IIRC, they weren't that successful in railway use, or were they just bit too 'different' for dyed-in-the-wool railwaymen perhaps?), though I've heard rumours about a bungalow in Furness as well.

    Isn't one of the ESR railcars at Quainton in use as a trailer these days? It seems about as close to service as it's liable to get for now .... worst luck.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2018
  5. CH 19

    CH 19 Well-Known Member Friend

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    Would this not make the ideal Wealden Rambler, taken from RC Riley, Brighton line Album, photo copyright British Rail 20180316_202551.jpg 20180316_202551.jpg
    Obo one end, LBSC D1 new build, and LBSC Directors Saloon t'other, simples.
    Chris
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2018
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  6. D6332found

    D6332found Member

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    Jersey body in a ROMANIAN LOCO WORKS...
    think Sudan for the Clayton
    thge GNSR body only is preserved at Ferryhill....
     
  7. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Blimey .... a Clayton?! Always seen as the poor relation of the Sentinel, one important reason for their early demise here and in Ireland was lack of spares after the company went bust. If there really is one still in existance .... colour me amazed! One slight issue though ..... Sudanese Railways were built to Cape Guage.

    The good news about Sentinels is that, in addition to the smattering of surviving Sentinel rail locos, there's a very active and well organised Owners Club for road Sentinel types, every bit as committed as us rail addicts and they preserve a wealth of knowledge concerning the company, it's designs and their foibles.

    Do you know the story of whatever is at that Romanian site? I seem to remember a few former railway bodies were still dotted around Jersey here and there and one such (recovered from a property in St.Brelades or St.Ouen IIRC), has been restored on the island. No chassis AFAIK, but a fine acheivement. Can't recall if it had been SG or 3'-6" (The Jersey Railway later JR&T - a separate entity from the Jersey Eastern - was converted to NG in 1884).
    I love the idea myself, but 'doubts have been expressed' as to the operational practicalities so far as the Bluebell is concerned. The D3 was quite a lot bigger, but Tom informs us that no drawings are known to have survived.

    The notion of some recreated Panter 'balloon' stock, certain diagrams of which were used for P-P, is tempting (well, it is to me .... dunno how the folks at SP might feel about things as, even if someone could afford to build some, it all takes up precious space!).
     
  8. marshall5

    marshall5 Well-Known Member

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    The body of the ex Jersey Eastern Sentinel (formerly at Palot's museum) went to Romania some years ago for 'rebuilding' using a post war 100HP industrial loco as the power unit. As pointed out above the remains of the original were to be scrapped afterwards but the project seems to have stalled. The original power unit from Brittany was used to make the loco Dom originally preserved at the K&ESR but later cut up, some parts being salvaged for a Sentinel at Quainton. There were actually two Claytons in Sudan which I photographed in 1983. Apologies if I've posted these here before (but it may have been over on RMWeb). As regards being Cape gauge, the wheelsets on these were inside the frames and coupled by chains whereas the s.g. ones had the wheels outside with coupling rods.
    Cheers,
    Ray.
    Clayton Railcar 900 Demazeen Sudan 4 Jan 1983.jpg Clayton Railcar 899 Kosti Sudan 6 Jan 1983.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2018
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  9. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    “Liver & Bacon” livery - not something often photographed. Apart from that picture, I can only remember seeing about one other.

    Tom
     
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  10. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    The last time I spoke to the owner of the Jersey railcar about it, the project had not stalled but was not his priority and probably still isn't, given recent happenings.
     
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  11. MarkinDurham

    MarkinDurham Well-Known Member

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    The Midland railmotor has been released by the NRM and is being converted into a tearoom at a honey farm near Berwick, I believe.
     
  12. Forestpines

    Forestpines Well-Known Member

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    I recall on visiting the Shuttleworth Collection, whose non-aircraft collections are very heavily Clayton-themed, my first thought was: ooh, I wonder if they like the idea of a new-build railcar?
     
  13. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    An operable anything on Jersey immediately begs the question "where?". The old formations of either of the historic companies are a complete non-starter, the only alternative being a private location .... and 'oodles of space' isn't a term that springs to mind on an island small enough for the difference between high and low tides to register a change of something like 20% in it's total land area.
    I've certainly never seen either image Ray, so many thanks for those. All the Claytons I've previously seen photos of (and that's not many!) were very visibly rod driven. I wonder whether they survived the tragic conflict which engulfed much of the country in the years since Ray's visit.

    (Heading OT briefly .... apologies .... this sent me to check the current state of play for Sudanese railways. Not only haven't they vanished into the sand, a new cross-border link to Chad is in prospect -the investment coming from China- and at least some stock is of very modern aspect. South Sudan is another subject entirely and heading even further off-piste. Therefore ..... [\End of digression])

    Regards 'Dom', that episode was unknown to me. At least some useful salvage resulted :(. The name seems odd, (as in Pérignon ... perhaps?) given General Sir George Don - with an 'n' (who as Govenor accomplished much to improve matters for islanders) is commemorated in several ways, including the location known as 'Don Bridge'. The last SG loco bought by the original Jersey Railway (Dübs 2-4-0T Works No.1222 of 1879) was named for him, retaining the identity during it's first months of service on the WC&P.

    It seems the dual nature of railcars/railmotors is as much of an impediment in preservation as it was operation. Let's hope, even if nothing else gets built (or repatriated), GWR 92/93 can continue to fly the flag for this fascinating chapter.
     
  14. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    Although r\ilmotors are a fascinating subject, it seems to me that in the UK at least they are hardly a major part of UK Railway History & the GWS Railmotor does more than enough to represent them
     
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  15. 2392

    2392 Well-Known Member

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    Bear in mind the various rail-motors be they diesel/petrol or steam, are the more modern answer to the likes of the Steam Elephant, Puffing Billy or Locomotion [replicas] at Beamish. Thus have a place in the grand scheme of things, showing the history/development of such railway technology. Or for that matter Rocket, Novelty and Sans Pariel at Rainhill. Throw in Lion as I've mentioned in the picture puzzle section, it's hard to think that there's only 9 years between Rocket and Lion.......
     
  16. RLinkinS

    RLinkinS Member

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    Kitson "Coffee Pot" on the Pichi Richi railway in Australia. Featured on Australian television in 2017 se
     
  17. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Not the most significant maybe and certainly not the most headline grabbing, but I'd venture to suggest a more important chapter in railway history than your post might imply. As a response to growing competition from first trams and later, buses across the UK and precursor to innumerable Pull-Push services (the Southern term!), they remain an illustration of how the railways responded to the first real threat to their grip on the passenger market.
     
  18. Thompson1706

    Thompson1706 Part of the furniture

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    The fact that we were building 9Fs in the same decade as the Yanks put men on the moon sums it up !

    Bob.
     
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  19. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    But not at the same end of the same decade! And for the record .... we did still have our own space programme back then. :)
     
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  20. oddsocks

    oddsocks Well-Known Member

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    IMHO our "Space-Ships" were better than theirs! :rolleyes:
     

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