Which Preserved Lines have Electric Car Charging Points??

Pure electric cars are a dead end in technology. No two ways about It- the embedded energy and use of potentially damaging substances in batteries likely make them even poorer for the environment long-term anyway. In addition we have still got to produce electricity to serve them somewhere within the already stretched national grid
Range extenders currently give the best option and hopefully other new technologies should start to come to the fore in the next few years.

Chris

 

I've never understood why the principle first used on Top Gear's homemade car hasn't been taken further. Obviously that car was dreadful because of what it was, but why haven't we seen any other cars that are powered by electricity generated onboard? It should be a lot more efficient in fuel. I know little in this area, are there any practical reasons why no one's really looked into it?

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The dead end Chris mentions is that circumscribed by battery performance. As things stand, lead/acid cells seem unlikely to progress far beyond their present state. Li/Cad tech has scope for further development, but is limited by it's very nature (although superior to earlier batteries).

To extrapolate from the foregoing that 'electric cars' are a dead end is bold indeed! It's likely that as the support for the different flavours of electric vehicles develops, what we currently assume to be the only means of charging will prove to be just one note in a chord.

Alongside purely battery/capacitance systems, there exists hybrid technology and hydrogen fuel cells are rapidly approaching commercial viability (Deutsche Bahn already have such vehicles in trial service)....

...... and nobody's so much as mentioned induction yet!

 

We have - that's how the Toyota Mirai works for example. From the Top Gear website - Without going into the full head-scratching detail, the Mirai uses a fuel cell to turn compressed hydrogen into electricity, with water the only byproduct. Said electricity is used to drive a 152bhp front-mounted electric motor, while a battery behind the rear seats soaks up any excess energy from the fuel cell or brake regeneration, before discharging it as extra boost when your right foot asks for it. Think of it as a regular EV with its own onboard powerplant (and less range anxiety).

https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/toyota/mirai/driving

 

Trouble is I don't think anybody will be providing 13 Amp sockets specifically for car charging. Also how much would you be prepared to pay for this service? Say 3 hours at 3 kph would cost the railway about £1.20 for electricity alone (based on the K&ESRs supply contract). The basic fares already run at a loss at most railways subsidised by the commercial activities.

 

A year or so ago, I saw so few electric only cars that I would remark to myself every time.
Now, in my 25 minute cross-town cycle to and from work every day, it is unusual that I don't pass a dozen or so.

 

By 'pass' do you mean overtaking them?

 

If you are willing to sacrifice the range I believe that they can be 'lively' I have driven a tram at Seaton, that was 'fun' and seen a few Leafs going like the wind.

 

We had an experimental electric Leyland Sherpa electric van where I worked - just over 30 years ago now.....(it was a B prefix registration)
Top speed was 60 mph and it had a range of 40+ miles on a full charge. It was always great fun at traffic lights when people would pull up on your offside, thinking they were faster than the diesel van on their nearside - only to be left standing when the lights changed.
It had a seriously good rate of acceleration when you put your foot on the pedal and I did get it up to 60 mph on the Orwell Bridge once as well........


Sadly, corrosion on the battery trays was a problem, and when the controller gave up the ghost, it was withdrawn and now sits in a Museum !
We did source a replacement controller for it after preservation but it has not been deemed economical to buy any batteries for it.
Makes a nice contrast with our 1914/16 (or thereabouts) Ransomes electric lorry though - which was much more "fun" to drive!


.

 

With regards to preserved lines installing chargers, one point that nobody has put numbers on is the cost of installing the chargers - and and that installation cost would have to allow for the necessary cabling, too. The last I read, a few months back, the cost of a single very fast charger was £18,000. You also need to allow for where cars are parked; in the case of Tenterden Town Station on the Kent & East Sussex, the main car park is on the north side of the line. The C & W workshops (also on the north side) will certainly have heavy duty cables to supply their machinery and lighting - but I very much doubt the existing cables would be enough to cope with anything more than a limited number of 13A socket type chargers. And how many lines could afford to spend a lot of hard cash on facilities which could only be used by a very small proportion of their customers?

The other point that's been missed is this; take a look around where you live at the numbers of homes which don't even have off road parking, let alone a lockable garage. If people who live there buy an electric car, how are they supposed to charge it? Bluntly, they can't - and that is going to be the biggest stumbling block to large scale take-up of electric cars.

And that is probably the reason why a hefty majority of nominally electric cars are in fact hybrids.

I think most preserved lines could find far better ways to invest their limited funds than on expensive charging points which would, at best, only be needed (as distinct from WIBN) by a very small proportion of their customers.

 

Today, I agree. I've just put the deposit down on a petrol car (CX-5), having rejected another manufacturer's hybrid equivalent (RAV4) as overpriced, overcomplicated, underspecced, and, worst of all, no more efficient as a 2.5l hybrid than a comparable 2.0 petrol engine.

Looking round, we noticed that all electric cars are beginning to become viable for many purposes. My wife's car will be replaced in a year or so, and we will be looking for something that's going to be used almost exclusively within 30 miles of home. The current, let alone new, Nissan Leaf would fit the bill well and we would seriously consider one if it weren't for one vital drawback. While we have it (we keep our's 5-7 years) one or both kids will want to learn to drive, and all electric or hybrid would mean they wouldn't get experience with a manual; something we think a vital driving skill to acquire.

 

Me, too, with the CX-5. It will be my second and, if it is as good as the last, I won't have any complaints. I also went to look at a hybrid RAV4 but walked out after half an hour of waiting for someone to talk to. They had a Welcome Host to greet me but he wasn't allowed to talk to me about the car; it had to be a sales rep and he couldn't find one. Not that they were busy, they'd just disappeared. He could even find someone to take another chap out on a pre-booked test drive.

Apologies for going O/T.

 

Fortunately the end of the 11Kv line that supplies the station area of Tenterden is in our (K&ESR) car park so it would be a case of putting in a new supply from the transformer to a separate cabinet for the chargers- the last connection I had put in by UK Power networks cost the railway around £3000. As Ive said in earlier posts there are currently 2 commercial charging points in the Station Road West car park about 300 yards from the station. They were put in around 2 years ago and I finally saw my first vehicle using them a couple of weeks ago a Mitsubishi Plug in hybrid. There's just not the demand yet to justify spending say £8 to 9000 for a couple of 7KW charging points yet (in rural kent anyway).

 

I didn't realise that, Paul - so thanks for the info. Mind, you'd still have the work involved in laying out the cabling to the individual chargers, and the not inconsiderable cost of paying for the chargers themselves.

I think that 'rate of usage', plus the fact that the car in question was a hybrid, really puts the whole thing in perspective.

I agree; as always, it's horses for courses. If the KESR was within 10 or 20 miles of a big urban centre, where more people are likely to have electric cars, anyway, it might be justifiable - but for lines such as yours, the NYMR or the Welshpool & Llanfair, it makes no sense at present, and may never make sense, even in the long run. If the hydrogen-powered fuel cells which are currently being developed become a viable proposition, they could well kill off battery cars completely - and bang goes your investment in chargers.

 

Interesting thread.

By day, I am a motoring journalist (fleet, not consumer), so I know a fair bit about charging points.

Even without the generous government grants, the cost of installing charging points is nowhere near some of the prices quoted here.

If anyone is genuinely interested in installing a point or two, feel free to PM me and I can put you in touch with a few contacts at charging point companies.

I could also see one of my publications running a story about a heritage railway installing a point too, which would (hopefully!) provide a bit of free PR. I would suspect the charging companies would probably want to do something with the story as well.


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Hello Daniel,
£8 to £9000 for a 3 phase connection to the supply companies transformer a new supply point, meter, around 100 meters in cabling, earthing rods, 2 7kw charging points and certification of the installation is a very realistic price. This is what I'm talking about at the Tenterden car Park and what realistically most heritage railways would be looking at.
If you are able to put the charging point within reasonable distance of a building that has adequate reserve supply and could be added on to an existing consumer unit it would be less I agree.
I can't see any of the commercial charging companies being interested in installing a point less than 300 yards from a publicly available (and hardly ever used) site: https://www.zap-map.com/pts/arhu5pi/

 

Seemed the least inappropriate place to post this, but it mightn't throw up more than a comment or two. Here goes .....

There's a recent YouTube channel called "Fully Charged" concerning developments in electric vehicles of all categories, which some may find of interest.

Their programme (intended to be uploaded weekly) is fronted by a chap called Llewelyn, who some may remember as Kryten, others from his time fronting 'Scrapyard Challenge'.

The programmes are of broadcast quality and the content in the one listed below may cause the odd raised eyebrow, as it contains a snippet on the VW dieslegate thing, from which some will derive no small satisfaction ..... Oh! ..... and something very interesting about seagoing ferries. Those with investments in cobalt futures might want to watch too.

No sign in or anything needed and it should play in your browser, without opening any other app (if it askes you to do so, just hit 'Cancel' to watch in browser)



You'll find earlier episodes on their website: http://www.fullychargedshow.co.uk (looks like they got beaten to .com by an electric bike retailer of the same name.)

Didn't want to start a new thread over on General Chat unless the subject kicks up enough dust.

Howard

 

Back on the original topic of the thread, Exbury Garden & Railway between Hythe and Beaulieu have two changing points at the far end of the car park near the coach parking area.
https://www.exbury.co.uk/Ride_the_Steam_Train.html

No charge for plugging in, probably just as well when you look at the entrance fee.

Beaulieu Motor museum has charging points, normally used for their runabouts and internal service vehicles.

Cheers, Neil