Bassett Lowke's Little Giants - Where are they now?

I wan't thinking of doing much more to EWT than what's needed in any serious heavy overhaul after ??? years, plus what may be neccessary to address it's worst shortcomings. I'm uncertain what sort of mileage the loco has racked up, but I'd guess it's the equivalent of five times the distance anywhere without benefit of Penrhyn Point's sand grinding service!

The "sisters" demonstrate the robust nature of Guest's work and it'd be a crying shame not to give the pacific a fair chance to show what it should always have been. Nowt too hairy there I feel! Anyhoo .... as it lives on the other side of the world and there are no plans (AFAIK) for repatriation, any further speculation on my part is moot.

Mmmm .... Esk3 eh? Is "Mite" effectively Esk2? As the original design is getting on for a century old now (and my guess is you probably know more about "Esk" than anyone this side of Henry Greenly) ..... What design developments and tweaks do you consider would benefit a MkIII version?

Call me wierd, but the original Lentz gear was a feature which caught my eye. Now, if that rotary cam gear on the P2 behaves itself.......

For now, the 'new kid on the block' is hogging the limelight .... and a lovely looking loco it is to be sure, but I'm certainly not the only one gleefully anticipating the return of Esk1 !

 

I think the Guest pacific loco "Prince William" (previously at Evesham, at Steamtown Carnforth in my youth) which started life as a Black 5 4-6-0 look-alike is quite similar to EWT in it's current configuration. It's somewhere in the UK (not sure where).

 

There are photos in "Katie's Other Sisters" (Stan Buck pub Sîan Project Group 2007) of this loco in both it's 4-6-0 and 4-6-2 forms. The most recent taken included was during it's time at the Evesham Vale Light Railway in 2003 and was apparently still there in 2007, when Buck's book was published. The info in the next paragraph is from that book.

It's original near scale Belpaire firebox had insufficient grate area to sustain steam production and it's the poor performance of this boiler which seems to have been what led to EWT, built the follwing year, to be constructed with a wide firebox, neccessitating the trailing axle. The rebuild of the 4-6-0 as a pacific is listed as being in 1969, the delay explained by this loco having led a nomadic life, with years at a time in storage. Mind you, it was stored for periods after the rebuild too!

I suppose if a stonking great standard gauge 0-6-0 can drop off the radar for years, so can a smallish 15in gauge pacific! Though some current info on this loco would satisfy curiosity, part of me relishes a modern day mystery.

 

I discrib Esk one as what was in the past. The items they had and what has been saved during this rebuild for the museum. Esk 2 is what we have now. Esk 3 is basically an all new build biased on Esk 2. You could correct things on the frames, boiler and wheels which we’ve not touched. Roller bearings would also become viable. I would like to take some of the cylinder work further. An Esk 3 would aid standardisation.

A further development would be dependent on unlimited independent funding and a blank paper to build my version of the ultimate steamer. At lest including compounding and further draughting developments, superheaters, feed water heaters and so on.

 

Yes EWT is an old gent, I take your point. But so many of the improvement would not be particularly visible. Same as with Esk, now an Esk 2, not that most observers would notice or appreciate how much renewal was needed post arson attack.Esk 3 would be worthwhile, you wouldn't want to do too much to the River Esk that we know, but having the chance to show what can be achieved within the scope of the design would be quite an opportunity.

 

Prince Willaim is with her owner under overhauil, its not faie r to say anymore

 

I "get" draughting, supeheater & feedwater. As I'm not any too familiar with the fimer points of Greenly's design, your remarks about frames and wheels are more of a mystery to me and I'm intrigued by the comment re: compounding. AFAIK, that would be an entirely novel departure for a heavy 15" gauge loco. Could you share your thinking on that please Nigel?

 

Thing like frames have some lenz cylinder retires which need eliminating. To convert to roller bearings is horn modifications. Wheels could be rebalanced.

My interest as is well known is in modernising steam locos. The benifits of compounding are many both eficentcy and balancing that it would be a shame not to use them . In many ways it would be a demonstrater of what a full size loco should be. I omtitted to mention either a GPCS or vegetable oil fired system.

 

Vegetable oil? Might I get in a gratuitous plug for torrified biomass pellets*? Tests over the pond look most promising:
https://csrail.org/torrefied-biomass

*Before anyone asks ..... I have no financial interest in this tech. It simply looks to have real potential, bespoke pellet shapes are feasible to suit different fireboxes (though it's early days as far as which shape suits what size/shape firebox) and being moulded, pellets are uniformally shaped, simplifying handling. It's carbon neutral and won't smell of rancid chips.

 

So you would want a modern chassis, fully welded, possibly of the tubular section type giving cast bed rigidity without the weight penalty. Roller bearings throughout, would you want Franklin or Timken wedges?
As you desire to showcase compounding what cylinder disposition would you aim for? Porta was looking at 2 cylinders for modest power outputs, but if you are wanting a full size in miniature machine you might be thinking along different lines.
I assume that you would want to adopt modern piston valves, would you include D & R G variable lead in the valve gear should the type selected permit this?
GPCS with easy conversion to liquid fuel, but what boiler pressure would you like to use and how would you want to arrange the superheating?
Just wanting to find out what you would really like to do should the opportunity come about.

 

It says a great deal about the intrinsic "rightness" of Guests design that even "ruined" and dressed up in Rio Grande styling, Sian was still an attractive and well proportioned locomotive. I do agree that she looks very much better in her original/restored form though

 

I don't know quiet how far it's right to explain it on this thread other than Bassett lowke was an innovator. As such I am more than anything interested in development towards the ultimate steamer.

The frames would be like a spine with axel units as stearable units atached, no horns as such. In full size it would have active suspension for maximum adhesion. There would be three compound with super heat and re heat. Multiple valves per cylinder with everything Porta recommends plus more. Off set exhaust exhaust timing to soften the shock effects. My design of Kordinas, SAD draughting giving even greater than Lempors and between 2 and three times draught compered with any no boundary layer type. Three opposite balanced valve gears of bakers with adjustable lead steam. Carbon neutral fuels like compressed wood pellets or recycled vegetable oils, all welded and roughened tubes. New types of flexible stays. Duel port regulators and auto starting valve. Roller bearing everything. Sealed and high degree insulation, proper combustion money ting system, maximised instrumentation. Full rail conditioning system. porta wheel profiles.
And so on. I sure you can have an idea where I would like to go from the above even though there is little detail there.

 

Was he related to the much better known Bassett Lowke?

 

Higher profile, innit…

Simon

 

I know I am not the best at spelling but when the spell checker changes it from right to wrong it’s most annoying.

 

Isn't it just! I've got chronic suasage-fingeritis. Which, coupled with an inability to work any of the edit functions, let alone find the spell checker, means it usually takes me three or four goes to tidy up a post and miss no more than a handful of cock-ups! There are about a dozen common words I still routinely forget how spell.

.... back to locos .... Very interesting ideas from Nigel (are you a fan of the SAR Class 25's by any chance?) which sent me straight to the last proposal for an advanced 15in gauge loco I came across. Got to say, a tender loco has just got to be more driver friendly on the 15inch. Anyway, here's 'Abigail':
http://www.steam-loco-design.co.uk/zb_article_6.html
The suspension on this beastie is particularly noteworthy.

 

Thanks for this response. I hope that one day you will get the chance to translate your ideas into metal. You probably have a chance in 15" gauge, far more so than in standard.

 

Can anyone update on these locos? Always somewhat difficult to keep track of. This is the latest I know of them:

Class 10:
- Little Giant - NRM
- Prince Edward of Wales (aka Red Dragon) - Rhyl Miniature Railway
- Mighty Atom (aka Prince of Wales) - Cleethorpes, in poor condition and awaiting a plan for restoration.
- King George V (formerly of Carnforth) - California.
- Hungaria - Hungary

Class 20:
- Princess Elizabeth (ex-Prince of Wales, formerly of Carnforth) - California
- King George (ex-Prince Edward of Wales, appeared at Fairbourne gala a couple of years ago) - not sure where this one is, can anyone advise?!?!?!

Class 30:
- Count Louis - last heard of at the Ratty?!?!?
- Synolda - Ravenglass Museum

Anyone confirm about Count Louis and the mysterious King George?

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

 

I believe both King George and Count Louis and privately owned and stored at private locations. Little Giant has been on loan to the Ravenglass Museum lately but I am not sure if it is still there.

 

Little Giant is indeed still at Ravenglass, Count Louis is owned by Michael Whitehouse and another gentleman