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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

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    Catering can be hard work, but also quite good fun, especially if carried on in the positive atmosphere that Barrie and Dee Childs have injected into the Quantock Belle this year gone, which has made it a pleasure to help them on occasion.

    They have said that they would like to trial using the QB as a static restaurant as times when it is not required out along the line. I look forward to helping with that. If it happens, it will undoubtedly be on a limited number of days in 2018, but knowing B and D, it will be well arranged. So if you would like to see this initiative succeed and generate positive evidence for the future, do make the effort to use it when offered. Or better still, volunteer to help. Try it, you might like it!

    Robin
     
  2. Snifter

    Snifter Well-Known Member

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    Very funny. It can't be an old photo of me as it is too angelic. I would have a spanner in one hand and an unauthorised souvenir in the other !
     
  3. Paul Kibbey

    Paul Kibbey Well-Known Member

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    Anne , I couldn't disaggree with you more . If it is important that you have a full blown meal rather than a snack when visiting a herritag railway then possibly book yourself onto their dinning services , just as you would for a top class restaurant or make use of the local amenities , the Lethbridge Arms does a varied menue .

    The WSR Plc need to concentrate on providing a safe railway service , everything else , it's a case of WIBN .
     
  4. Paul Kibbey

    Paul Kibbey Well-Known Member

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    I do believe there are teas , sandwiches and hot sausage rolls and pasties .
     
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  5. Paul Kibbey

    Paul Kibbey Well-Known Member

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    Anthony , do you go to sleep dreaming you are hearing the whistle of the S160 . Lol
     
  6. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    I won't comment on whether, objectively speaking, @Anne C-B is or isn't justified in what she expects from the WSR, or whether it's reasonable for her to expect what she does. Nor will I comment on what is economically or physically practical for the WSR to provide at BL.

    However, I will also observe that she is a customer who is looking to spend money with the WSR when she visits, and is entitled to an opinion. As @West Somerset Wizard has observed, they would most usefully be expressed in writing through the WSR plc so that there is evidence of demand to inform decisions. However, notwithstanding that, she has expressed her opinion on NP; others may express them through the likes of TripAdvisor, or just in gossip to friends and family. Those bits of feedback do matter, as they do influence where people will go, and what they will spend discretionary income on.

    Given that I generally take the hackneyed old view that "the customer is always right, especially when they are wrong", I'm interested in how the response has been more to explain why the expectation is wrong/muddle headed/impractical/uneconomic, rather than respond to the underlying frustration.

    As for the future of BL, I personally hope that there is scope to do something more expansive there, and increase the share of discretionary spend that the WSR makes from people on days out - bluntly, once parked, and committed to a journey, there's a fairly captive audience there to be served. Whether that's by use of QB or something else, I can't & won't comment on.
     
  7. big.stu

    big.stu Well-Known Member

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    I agree, but even this isn't as easy as it used to be - finding a decent full english in unfamiliar territory is much harder as a result of the demise of the Little Chef chain! Always been partial to an Olympic breakfast in such circumstances, but now only a handful of restaurants left, and those appear to be waiting for the axe. Not perfect, but you knew what you were getting, whereas picking a local cafe is often a complete lottery...

    Stu (making full use of the Four Went Ways Little Chef near Cambridge while it lasts - it should have closed last August but is still hanging on).
     
  8. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

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    Noting the post by 35B does suggest that many WSR supporters may be overlooking that those who help by paying to keep things going on the WSR may have valid complaints. A commercial business has to accept brickbats as well a brownie points however justified. There seem to be efforts to improve facilities on the line which can only be good thing and I am sure the PLC are aware of what is written here.
     
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  9. 1472

    1472 Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps this suggests that the market for the "full English heart attack" breakfast is not as large as it used to be?
    I suggest that during the summer months, which coincide with the busiest period on the WSR, the demand for a cooked breakfast is still smaller.
     
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  10. 6960 Raveningham Hall

    6960 Raveningham Hall Member Friend

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    Maybe so, but the market for the "greasy burger heart attack" as offered at the BL fast food van, seems as buoyant as ever.

    Stef.
     
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  11. aldfort

    aldfort Well-Known Member

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    Can I make a point before this turns into a them and us battle.
    Everybody who works on or rides on the WSR is a supporter. It's not a commercial business as some people keep saying. If it was a commercial business then the shareholders would expect some return on their investment, there is none. All the money goes into just keeping the railway going.
    It would be great to do a lot of the things that people talk about in this thread, in real life we need two things, more volunteers and more bums on seats to make most of those things a reality.
    The Association and the plc are working on both but these things don't happen overnight. If we want faster progress then there are 4 things we can do.
    Volunteer, Visit the railway more, Donate to the Charity, Buy shares. Any one of these will help, a combination of two or more will help more.
     
  12. railrover

    railrover Member

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    Although I have been one of those who has been critical of Anne C-B's post it wasn't so much her wishes and hopes I objected too and, as already stated, I too would find the option of a full breakfast service from BL a very attractive proposition. I stress the "from BL" rather than at because visitors of almost all varieties will have come with the primary purpose of travel with catering a secondary consideration, especially around the breakfast period which was her particular gripe.

    I don't think anyone would disagree with the more general contention that an improved catering offer at BL would be welcomed by visitors as a whole, but what I don't see as realistic is Anne's expectation that there would be sufficient potential customers willing to arrive at BL up to the necessary hour or so before the first train just to consume a full breakfast. I have nothing against the idea of WIBN ideas in principle, but any establishment providing such facilities has to pay it's way.

    The reason I responded as I did was what I felt to be the particularly unfortunate way in which Anne chose to express her message. giving the impression that any breakfast service should be provided as a right on any day when she chose to travel. I really can't believe that any routine running day in April, September or even during the high season would produce sufficient fellow breakfasters to cover even basic overheads. let alone direct costs.

    Whilst the demand at the Winter Steam Gala may have outstripped the available accommodation I don't think such an occurrence can be extrapolated into a year round phenomenon. Barrie & Dee have already responded most positively to various suggestions, and outlined their future plans and intentions. It is their and the whole
    catering team's willingness to provide the service that gives the rest of us the opportunity to enjoy ourselves. Such occasions need to be when it most makes commercial sense.
     
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  13. Snifter

    Snifter Well-Known Member

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    Mr Aldfort, Happy New Year old chum !

    I see where you are heading with that however with a £3M turnover and senior manager in the post of Head of Commercial, the WSR plc looks like a commercial business from a number of standpoints. I think this and any other similar railway can best be considered as a commercial business with non-tradable shares. Other types of company are certainly commercial and issue shares on which there is no dividend which meets your definition. You can google Google as an example.

    At the end of the day, we are a commercial organisation with lots of free labour that generates revenues to perpetuate the business / hobby depending on your viewpoint. I should quickly add that it changes nothing and everything you say about delivering support is absolutely spot on !
     
  14. 6960 Raveningham Hall

    6960 Raveningham Hall Member Friend

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    I'm not sure that anybody is suggesting fine dining or silver service. Certainly not me. If that's what I need I visit Rick Steins Seafood Restaurant or go on a mainline steam excursion.
    My objection is regarding the quality of food on offer. Why does it always have to be pasties or sausage rolls, invariably made even more disgusting by the use of a microwave oven to heat them.
    I have a fair knowledge of catering matters, having worked for many years in the hospitality market in Cornwall. One thing I understand is that the healthy, fresh option is invariably less expensive to produce than the alternative.
    What's wrong with freshly-made sandwiches? How about jacket potatoes? Or a bowl of soup with a chunk of fresh bread? Every week I make my own soups and the cost for, as an example, a large bowl of Leek and Potato soup with a roll and butter, is less than 50 pence.
    Please don't suggest that I want the railway to live beyond its means; I understand profit and I know that it is often best achieved by being a little more adventurous and not going for the option that appears to be the easiest.
    As for contributing to the Railway - I am a member of WSRA, a Friend of Stogumber Station and I visit as often as I can. No Steam Gala is ever missed. I would love to become a volunteer and I think I could offer a good deal. However, poor health as a result of knee replacement rules that out, for the present at least.
    Stef.
     
  15. jumper

    jumper New Member

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    In my opinion, every Heritage Railway/Centre must be a business and needs to earn enough (at least) cash to meet its outgoings and something more to improve its offering otherwise they are potentially doomed. We are not immune to the ups and downs of the economy, competitors and customers' wish to spend or not. Although some visitors can be classified as supporters, many (families in particular) are looking for a day out and whether they return or recommend to others will simply be as a result of their experience of value and enjoyment of the visit. Should they spend their hard-earned money on the railway or go elsewhere?

    The 'commercial' return is to members, volunteers and supporters through being proud of 'their' railway and its achievements. More than money alone can bring!
     
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  16. Beckford

    Beckford Guest

    Given that I generally take the hackneyed old view that "the customer is always right, especially when they are wrong", I'm interested in how the response has been more to explain why the expectation is wrong/muddle headed/impractical/uneconomic, rather than respond to the underlying frustration.

    Back in the day, there used to be a saying along the lines of: " the customer may not always be right but there is little to be gained from proving to them they're wrong"!
     
  17. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Agreed. I think that saying needs tweaking to include "...and much to be lost from the attempt".
     
  18. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

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    I think I have totally "lost the plot" on what is be asked for regarding food so I do not know if it is justified or not. I certainly read the posts from @Anne C-B as some form of "fine dining" although was then confused by the list of railways where meals had been provided as those that I am familiar with only offer what I regard as a full meal at certain times of the day or certain days of the week. I may be wrong but I am unaware you can turn up at Sheffield Park or Swanage for example on every running day and have a sit down breakfast, actually not sure that is an offering at Swanage at all, but I live there so it is not somewhere I would be expecting to have breakfast.
    However the Stephen Mylnek list of such things as jacket potato or soup with roll an butter would certainly not be classed as a meal to my wife, and I even myself, (who is someone who only eats to live and beyond that food means nothing to me, as shown by the fact I have been known to turn down a meal on a mainline tour whilst stewarding in favour on my own sandwiches) would only regard those as snacks.
    I do accept eating on the move may be something I would do as I am not wasting time eating rather than travelling, but as has been said there are many places "en route" to eat if you want a full breakfast in the morning. Taunton for example has at least two Premier Inn's to my knowledge.
    Is someone able to explain what it is felt the WSR (or any other heritage railway) "should be required" to provide?
     
  19. aldfort

    aldfort Well-Known Member

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    Sorry folks I did not mean to stir up a hornets nest.
    Can we all perhaps agree that the railway is a not for profit. Hopefully a description that will both satisfy everybody and make it clear that nobody is getting rich.
    I agree that volunteers get the satisfaction in a job well done and I don't think there is a single WSR volunteer who is not proud of "their" railway.
    Could the food be improved? A hard question given the range of opinions provided in this thread. What some would see as an improvement others would see as retrograde. Could the range be expanded, I can't speak for MD but at BL I just ask that you look at the facilities we currently have (not the facilities we might have one day in the future). There is no prep area, that means all food has to be brought in pre-prepared which is inevitably limiting.
    Can I suggest that perhaps if the railway was further from civilisation the food might be higher up the to do list.
    Can I also point out some of the real catering delights on the railway. Stogumber cream teas spring immediately to mind. These are so good that on at least one rest day between turns last year I took a train BL to Stogumber, partook of the cream tea and then took a train back. I am assured there are others and I will make it my mission in 2018 to try out other eateries both on and near the line.
     
  20. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Don’t know about Swanage, but I checked for Sheffield Park: AFAICS it is open every day for breakfast and lunch except Dec 25, i.e. 364 days a year. Interestingly that includes non-running days (when the station, museum etc are open to the public but no trains are running). The morning opening time varies by day, but for running days is roughly an hour before the first train, which should give time for a full breakfast if you should desire. It also does evening meals on Saturdays: my experience is that that service is largely patronised by working volunteers who have been rostered in the day, or are staying overnight for a turn the following day.

    I’d accept though that different solutions would work for different railways; however, presumably those opening times are based on a genuine level of demand.

    Two other comments: one is that a fixed catering outlet is s big capital investment in a sector that is generally capital-poor. Given that, my hunch would be that to be successful, you’ve probably got to run to the highest capacity you can to realise the return on investment, always within the proviso of not running at a revenue loss. (What I’d call a “Weatherspoons” model). The other comment is about visual intrusion: inevitably, if you have a limited geographical footprint, the desire to maximise opportunities for secondary spend, and the desire to preserve the country station ambience, take careful blending.

    Tom
     
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