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SVR coaches vandalised

Discussion in 'Heritage Rolling Stock' started by nick813, Dec 26, 2017.

  1. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Who cares if it's it's the Mail, The Star, or the Beeb that have broken the news, what we do know is there's 2 pieces of kit that need a bit of TLC, so how do we go about giving the funds or the help we can, so they can be back in action ASAP. Just look @oddsocks post below.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017
  2. oddsocks

    oddsocks Well-Known Member

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    From the Severn Valley Railway Official site. (Copied and pasted)

    Festive Season Service Update

    Not something we wanted to wake up to...in the last 48 hours, vandals have attacked some of our historic carriages at Kidderminster with graffiti. An investigation is underway.

    In light of this, some of our trains will be shorter than planned as the affected carriages will be removed from service. We apologise for any inconvenience caused.

    We are extremely saddened by this turn of events, especially in the season of goodwill. But, in true Severn Valley Railway spirit, we will continue with smiles on our faces and ensure the much-loved and painstakingly-restored vehicles are returned to service as quickly as possible for our passengers to enjoy.

    ** Thank you for your messages of support this morning. The vehicles are owned by our Charitable Trust who have an online donation facility if you would like to help us return these, and other beautiful vehicles to service as soon as possible: svrtrust.org.uk/individual-support/donate-online-2.html **
     
  3. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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  4. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    They copied that lot from the Birmingham Mails story so a bit lazy too...
     
  5. SteveA

    SteveA Member

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    A few hours with some paint solvent and some rags will seen get that off without damaging the underlying paint or varnish. Have seen far worse removed in a couple of hours provided it's done within a day or so before the paint hardens.
     
  6. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Nat Pres stalwart

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    ...and the BTL comments read like a lot of posts on here. Quelle surprise... :Meh:
     
  7. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Nat Pres stalwart

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    Anyway, in the light of @oddsocks post, a donation has been made.

    Although if you read the Fail article, it says they've already been restored.:Meh:

    That really is an astonishingly piss-poor article.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017
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  8. Cartman

    Cartman Well-Known Member Account Suspended

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    The Daily Heil is the worst newspaper in the world. The only difference between it and Der Sturmer is that one of them was written in German. I hate graffiti, but think the punishment should fit the crime, make them clean it off, unpaid, for a 12 hour a day shift for about 6 months.
     
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  9. toplight

    toplight Well-Known Member

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    Those liberal minded people arguing for a slap on the wrist and some community service are basically saying to the people doing this " do it again". It can start with Grafitti and then progress onto full blown arson. Check out the attack on the Swindon and Cricklade below last year. I travelled in this coach myself just a week before. Now it has been scrapped and the railway will have to spend 5+ years plus thousands £ restoring another vehicle to replace it. That is the thing. It takes probably about a decade of effort by lots of people to restore such a coach and it can be all ruined in minutes. The SVR are lucky it is just paint and can be repaired.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ain-worth-100-000-destroyed-arson-attack.html

    Once people get into the mindset of destroying other people's property without penalty, they will do it again and again. The Police caught the people responsible but then they escaped prosecution as they all blamed each other, previously they had set fire to other things including their own school.

    Being caught Grafetting other peoples property like this should mean an automatic jail term. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.
     
  10. D1039

    D1039 Guest

    Rose tinted spectacles I suspect - Teddy Boys, various riots. It's not my field but a quick Google Scholar search on vandalism shows studies of it in the 1980s and etymology dating the term to the 1790s. Graffiti exists in Pompeii.

    Is there evidence that parents and teachers fail to teach respect of property, or that this has changed?

    It's measured annually by the crime survey (though not back to AD79). In the year to 2017 there were 10 offences per 1,000 of population, 7% up in the previous year but 8% and 51% lower than in 2012 and 2007 respectively https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...einenglandandwales/june2017#overview-of-crime

    I understand the drops in crime mirror those in the rest of the developed world.

    No, they're not

    Arsonists probably once did graffiti but few who do graffiti become arsonists. The same is true of other major crimes. The key is - you don't sentence people for crimes they might (but are unlikely to) commit, just in case they might go on to commit them.

    I disagree.

    So they were not charged with a crime - and so are not guilty of an offence. All the excessive punishments in the world won't be effective unless you convict the perpetrator.

    Patrick
     
  11. simon

    simon Resident of Nat Pres

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    If the Police caught the real perpetrators then they could have been charged with joint enterprise.

    D1039 has dealt with other invalid points in your post.
     
  12. toplight

    toplight Well-Known Member

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    The key bit in your graph "April 1998 Introduction of New Home office counting rules" and then surprise, surprise the number of crimes falls after that

    There has been a lot in the newspapers recently that the amount of shop lifting has risen and risen recently because apparently the police have started not bothering to charge people if the amount was less than £200, but no doubt their own figures will now show a fall in the amount of shoplifting. Statistics can be manipulated to show whatever you want them to show.
     
  13. DragonHandler

    DragonHandler Well-Known Member

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    Well, possibly a bit of rose tinted spectacles. But both mine and my friends parents and school teachers made a big thing of respecting other people's property. In the 50's and early 60's my parents never locked the back door when they went to the shops and no one would walk in a steal anything while they were out, I could leave my bike in the front garden overnight, without a padlock & chain, and it would still be there in the morning. People respected other people's property and didn't take what wasn't theirs. Perhaps I was fortunate and lived in a good area but 50+ years on I still live in the same area but I wouldn't think of going out anywhere without locking up and setting the alarm, I don't cycle anymore but when I leave my car I check that it's locked and there is nothing on display inside.

    So either parents & school teachers aren't teaching children to respect other people's property, or they're not doing a good job of it and the message isn't getting through.
     
  14. maninthecorner

    maninthecorner New Member

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    Why were the Heritage sets not in the carriage shed in the first place?
     
  15. D1039

    D1039 Guest

    It's more complicated, but a very short version includes more stock than covered accommodation. Operationally for much of the year a set on rotation is stabled in the open at Bridgnorth for the first daily service. For Santa all sets are at the Kidder end.

    From the SVR Wiki:
    Carriage shed https://www.svrwiki.com/Kidderminster_Carriage_Shed
    Carriages https://www.svrwiki.com/Carriages

    I'm sure current practices have been/will be reviewed

    Patrick
     
  16. D1039

    D1039 Guest

    True, but it shows more recent reductions from the mid-noughties onwards that are unrelated to changed counting methods a decade before. As I said above, a similar phenomenon was seen across other Western countries and last I heard it was unexplained. Other changes (lower alcohol, fewer teenage pregnancies) are also afoot. I'm not a sociologist but it's fascinating.

    In recorded crime yes, but the under £200 thefts will still show up in the crime survey as it records reported and unreported experiences of crime.

    Areas change, and so do perceptions. (Recollections on their own are rather unreliable measure of how things were in wider society. Academically, historians test the concept of oral history as a reliable research tool through corroboration - I've recently been studying it and it was very interesting).

    Certainly there were areas in the 50s and 60s (and any time period) when you wouldn't leave a house or bike unlocked. I don't know enough about reported/unreported crime comparisons between 50s/60s and now but would be delighted to read up if someone has the knowledge.

    Patrick
     
  17. Kje7812

    Kje7812 Part of the furniture

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    In addition to what D1039 has posted, easy of use as the sets are in use every day 26th-2nd. Also as it was boxing day, no paid staff around and no shunter rostered. Not all guards know how to open up to carriage shed so putting them away makes it difficult the next day.
     
  18. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    In the many years this has been done I cannot recall any other incidents, perhaps the railway has been lucky but in 33 years it's never been an issue before, hopefully it won't be in the future as even if you could fit them all in it would be a right pain at the start and end of everyday, especially if you wanted to put the North end set in as then you are talking ECS workings and isn't really practical.
    My priority would be attempting to enhance site security by making it harder for the vandals to access the site in the first place. That is easy to say but more difficult in practice although once you accept the lack of available covered storage I suppose that is all you can do really.
     
  19. big.stu

    big.stu Well-Known Member

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    There's at least one call for a return to the birch, and therefore I think we can deduce that the original poster meant corporal punishment rather than than capital punishment, which makes it interesting interpreting what you actually meant in your final comment:
    I agree we are softer on these matters, but the world is also a different place to when we were younger...positive enforcement has to be the way forward :)
     
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  20. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

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    Corporal punishment is not acceptable now, whether that is a good thing is for another thread but hitting them in the pocket seems to work elsewhere, if they have no cash then pay it off by deduction from benefits or wages. I know a bit of how it works in one country, Portugal. When I had a serious theft of property while on holiday I was told that I would be entitled to recompense from the criminals if they were caught and had to agree to a value of items in the crime report, not easy when you are not sure at that stage what's been nicked or it's replacement value. I assume if it came down to it the money would now belong to the insurance company. As far as I know if minors are involved the parents get the bill.
     

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