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The WSR DMU

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by johnofwessex, Dec 17, 2017.

  1. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    At one stage the WSR operated a number of DMU's however it is now down to a single 3 car 117 set with one spare trailer and a very tatty DMS stored under a tarpaulin in Minehead yard.

    The set itself is looking rather 'tired' there is talk of an overhaul, but does anyone know what is happening with it at the moment?
     
  2. Ploughman

    Ploughman Part of the furniture

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  3. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    Thanks, I have seen these however the vehicle undergoing a 'major overhaul' is under a tarpaulin at Minehead and has been for some years................

    Hence the questions
     
  4. burmister

    burmister Member

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    I first rode in a WSR dmu when the line was only open as far as Stogumber and the views from the open style of layout made viewing the fantastic scenery of the surrounding countryside ideal, same for the other early DMUs the line had. But one day I found the DMUs had all been changed to 115s, and what a totally unsuitable suburban layout they have, unless you are lucky to get the seats behind the driver its like riding in a padded cell with a very restricted outside view. DMUs should offer unrivalled viewing over 20miles like an observation car in off peak times with minimal operating cost which the 115 can never offer. ( Not for nothing a 101 trailer was used as an observation coach on the Inverness to Kyle line)
    So as shareholder I am happy to see them rust away rather than inflict an unsuitable ride on customers. But what a wasted opportunity, if I was not a shareholder one would think the railway was so flush with money added value off peak trains like these are not worth pursuing.

    Brian
     
  5. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

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    [QUOTE="
    So as shareholder I am happy to see them rust away rather than inflict an unsuitable ride on customers. But what a wasted opportunity, if I was not a shareholder one would think the railway was so flush with money added value off peak trains like these are not worth pursuing.

    Brian[/QUOTE]
    That's a bit extreme! At least one could have the attitude of they could be restored and then hired out for railways which do want them. I'm not a DMU fan myself but I take issue with the attitude that 'a loco is better rusting than running but perhaps not being ideally suited, for whatever reason, to the railway it is based at'
     
  6. Captain Fantastic

    Captain Fantastic Member

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    I might be better waiting a few months and buying a very soon to be redundant 142/143/144 than spending money on the 115, I'll get me coat ;)
     
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  7. M59137

    M59137 Well-Known Member

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    The problem with the WSR DMU set is that it is a Class 115, which are mechanically different to 90% of the other DMU's in preservation...

    Spares are impossible for them, and the WSR have done bloody well to get this far! There are only really four 115 sets left, and the WSR one has been the only one still in service for many years, with the others all rotting away in storage...

    For those who are "glad" that this one is now also out of service, spare a thought for those of us with an interest in different/unusual railcars, as unless the WSR can overhaul this set, we may have potentially just seen the last Class 115 ever run in preservation... Let's hope I'm wrong as its always a shame to see a type of preserved vehicle lost!

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  8. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    My knowledge of DMU's is fairly basic. For ignorant but interested people like me, what are the fundamental differences between a Class 115 and the other 90%? Wiki makes them out to be pretty much standard in terms of transmission and other fundamentals.
     
  9. M59137

    M59137 Well-Known Member

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    Quite different transmissions. The majority of DMU's are fitted with Leyland 680 engines and R14 gearboxes. The 115's are fitted with Leyland Albian and SE4 gearboxes, which are bigger. They also have different (larger) final drives. All three of these items were "discontinued" many years ago when it comes to spares availability, so the 115 has been an extremely disadvantaged design when it comes to operating them successfully in preservation.

    The WSR have lasted this long because they presumably have been proactive in obtaining the last dregs of these spares, and they preserved five 115 power cars, so I daresay the other three that didn't run have been picked of bits to keep the two runners going.

    Remanufactured spares have presumably never been an option, as the amount of capital a railway is willing to spend on DMU stock has traditionally been low. It was the requirement for more serious investment in their DMU's that led the WSR to can off and scrap its original DMU fleet and get in the 115's to replace them, although unless they go for pacers, that option will not be available for a second time.

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  10. Ian Monkton

    Ian Monkton Member

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    51887, the one under the tarpaulin at Minehead, was recently moved to Williton, and should be in the North Yard waiting to go into the Swindon Shed. 51663 which consists of frame only, was moved to Minehead from Dunster a few months ago. It should be in the siding nearest the sea, opposite the signalbox, I haven't ridden the line for a few months, so can't be more specific or positive with locations. I think that 51663 will be broken up eventually to provide spares, and that DMU maintenance will be moved to Williton (but not by the DEPG). Like many other projects, there is only a very small number of volunteers involved with keeping the DMU running, and they could always do with help!
     
  11. burmister

    burmister Member

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    For the units themselves I am not glad that they are rusting away, just that I do not think they were ever suitable for the WSR as a tourist railway that should be promoting the countryside it runs through. The best thing for the 115s would be for a group to take the best over and restore them like the 105 on the East Lancs. I therefore have a conflict of passions in that as a shareholder I do not want the WSR to 'waste' its money on these units but also would like to see them survive.
    The WSR is passing up opportunities for DMU off peak services contributing to the railway where a steam service would loose money. Sadly it seems the WSR is currently stuck in a mode of thinking that anything outside the standard 7 coach MK1 steam service is not wanted/too difficult/not worth it. A look at photos of some of these trains shows they must be marginal to say the least once fuel, water, infrastructure, coach maintenance and loco steaming fees are factored in

    Brian
     
  12. M59137

    M59137 Well-Known Member

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    I wish the small group who look after the 115 the best of luck. They have an awkward unit, which in terms of "wider" preservation deserves restoring and keeping in service. Sadly, from the floor upwards, the 115's are very "normal" suburban DMU's, so a lot of effort can go into maintaining the "downstairs" only for nobody to notice that you've done anything special!

    Looking on the more optimistic side, I was amazed to note how much capital the WSR recently pumped into a Class 03 which also needed "proper overhaul". An almost unheard of move for a railway owned diesel shunter to receive such investment. I was very impressed, so I therefore still have some hope for the 115!

    I would be interested to see if the tarped over powercar gets attention. When I visited the WSR 10 years ago (i have been back since!) this very vehicle was in the shed having bodywork, which got the thumbs up from me, but alas my next visit showed it stored in the open with no windows, part of its tarpaulin having blown off! It would be great if it's restoration re-commenced, I've got my fingers crossed.

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  13. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    Um, Oh Dear

    So Somerset's Premier Preserved Railway seeks low mileage good condition DMU in full working order

    Offers to CME Minehead Station?
     
  14. Agreed the internal layout and the many doors are not ideal for a country railway. But the WSR was faced with a choice at the time - no DMUs (the Park Royals, Cravens and Gloucester units all worn out with no spares) or Class 115/117s with spares for twenty years. Needs must as they say.

    I gave up guard duties on the WSR before the "new" DMUs came onto the scene and fondly remember working many many trips on the Park Royals and later the Cravens and the Gloucester units. Shame they had to go but they did need to function to be of use to the Railway.

    Interestingly, only after all this time are the surviving "early WSR" DMUs (Cravens, Park Royal) making revenue-earning comebacks. I don't think the WSR could have waited that long...

    Steve
     
  15. Aberdare

    Aberdare New Member

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    WSR DMU's

    The early first generation DMU's that the WSR had in service from 1976 through to early 1990's were all lightweight 2 car units comprising 1 power car and one trailer car. In total the railway had 2 two car Park Royal sets, 2 two car Gloucester C&W sets and 1 two car Cravens set.

    The engines were 6 cylinder AEC manufactured diesels of nominal 150 BHP each, 2 per power car, this particular engine had a number of design problems and engine life was quite short. Drivers of that time will remember the struggle to get up some of the WSR inclines with boiling radiators and low power, stopping at Stogumber was avoided at all cost as the restart was slow and maximum speed thereafter often stayed at around 20 mph in second gear with all the windows rattling. Spares for the AEC engines were very difficult to obtain.

    Bodywork for each of the 3 manufacturers was all to a different design, the Gloucester being by far the worst with water traps that caused severe corrosion. Unfortunately also in all 3 designs sprayed asbestos had been used to insulate the body sides and roof, repairs were not possible without disturbing this asbestos.

    In 1990 in consultation with HMRI and BR's Asbestos expert a policy decision was made to undertake the eradication of Asbestos DMU's on the WSR.

    The Cravens was the best of the fleet so the Asbestos was removed and the inside of the body spray sealed to encapsulate any remaining fibres, the unit was overhauled and returned to service for a further number of years before being sold to the ELR.
    One Park Royal set was sent straight to scrap and the other was stripped of Asbestos and eventually went to the Helston Railway in bare shell condition (One of the Park Royal sets had been sold to the DEPG in the mid 1980's). Parts having been reclaimed from the one that went for scrap.
    One Gloucester set was sent straight to scrap and the other went to the DMU museum in Norfolk, it may have been stripped of Asbestos first I am unsure on this detail. Parts having been reclaimed from the one that went for scrap.

    With the increase of passengers on the WSR and lack of engine spares the Cravens was unable to cope so in the mid 1990's thoughts turned to a suitable replacement that was available at that time. One option was Southern thumper sets and the other was class 115 4 car sets ex Marylebone services, The advantage of the class 115 was the larger Albion 900 series 230 BHP engines which gave a greater reserve of power and allowed 4 car sets to climb WSR banks easily on less than full power, even when 1 engine was shut down. In the outcome the WSR had a total of 5 class 115 power cars and 5 class 115/117 trailer cars. The intention being to have sufficient vehicles to maintain a 3 or 4 car set in continuous service. In addition we purchased 5 or more spare engines and gearboxes from 115's as they were being scrapped off at Margam.

    Over the years one power car has been sold off, one has been retained minus its body, this was considered the most cost effective and secure way of storing a full set of underfloor spares and bogies. Three 117 trailer cars have been sold. The remaining set has been converted to allow access to a passenger saloon for wheelchair bound passengers. The only undesirable feature of 115 vehicles are the number of doors, we have considered rebuilding with less but heritage is lost and the narrow gangway between seats starts to become an issue with people getting larger.

    One power car now in service has had a complete rebuild of the body with all new sides (framing as well) and a redesign of the roof to side joint which was previously positioned in the gutter and only sealed with mastic. The galvanised roof sheets now extend down to the top of the window opening with no joint under the gutter. The power car which is sheeted over is part completed with the same process but work stopped due to lack of covered workshop space.

    The WSR with outside contractors has the spares and ability to entirely rebuild the Albion engines if required to near new condition, and still has a number of complete engines, gearboxes are more of a challenge but not impossible. The WSR fortunately has a small dedicated team who have the DMU at heart and will not let it fade away.

    With regards to view and seating this has not been received as a common passenger complaint but it would be possible to replace the original class 115 high back seats with class 117 low back seats to enhance the view.

    Andy.
     
  16. M59137

    M59137 Well-Known Member

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    That's a nice explanation for those not familiar with the WSR DMU story, thanks for sharing. The railway do get criticised for disposing of the very rare 100/103/105 types in the 1990's, but those critics forget that without the WSR having them in the first place, they either wouldn't have been saved at all, or in the case of the 100's, they may well have been scrapped after the North York Moors had finished with them. Having them on the WSR allowed some of the other groups time to develop and then take the units on later on. The recent debut of the 105 shows how well, in the long term, it has worked out.

    It would appear the railway has now become a bit of a "115 sanctuary", so it is heartening to hear that the spares situation is relatively good, and I applaud the group looking after the 115's there.

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  17. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    Andy,

    Thank you for that

    I take it then that the last of the 115's should be in service for w few more years yet.

    Now, if she could be brought up to the condition of some other preserved units that would be very nice indeed.

    Possibly a project for the WSRA to fund??
     
  18. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Of all the first generation DDMU's at the early WSR, I always thought the 103's (which I remember fondly from their 'rail blue' days on the Cambrian Coast Line, complete with the red buffer beams, a Cambrian trademark!) the most stylish, but Andy's post, coupled with what I now know about bodywork issues rather explains why there are so few left.

    The original WSR livery suited the DMMU's rather well IMO.
     
  19. burmister

    burmister Member

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    Andy thank you for your reply, interesting to someone who helps maintain a DEMU that the WSR looked at these as well. Our DEMU is very economical I can do a 60mile day comfortably with just 15 gallons of fuel so under £40 a day unless its ETH as well, what is the typical days mileage and consumption of a 115? My sympathies with all the doors, our Glass Fibre skinned ones have had to have framework and skin repairs at a specialist Glass Fibre yacht repairer as the metal frames rusted expanded and blew the skins not cheap to fund with a compartment vehicle.

    Is reseating still being considered, folk might not comment or complain about the restricted view but does not stop them thinking it or just blaming it on being a diesel. I would think it would not alter the structure if at all and if the original seat frames were kept could easily revert to as built should the desire arise.

    Best wishes to your small group.

    Brian
     
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  20. Ian Monkton

    Ian Monkton Member

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