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Lynton and Barnstaple - Operations and Development

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by 50044 Exeter, Dec 25, 2009.

  1. Miff

    Miff Part of the furniture Friend

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    Affordability is not an issue for the planning authority to consider. Many things that received planning permission never got built.
     
  2. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    From any personal standpoint, does it really need saying that there's nothing unreasonable in wondering? To base an objection irrelevant to the planning process on unsupported speculation is an entirely different matter. Given that it's specifically the planning process at issue here, I don't propose to wade in anyone else's deliberately muddied waters.
     
  3. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    But a concern about the plausibility of the project to be approved does not strike me as unreasonable in planning terms.

    It should be stated, however, that I have full confidence in the L&B's ability to see the project through.
     
  4. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    So far as planning processes go, reasonably or otherwise, 'tis either a legally mandated consideration or 'tis not.

    Even in the heady days of privately financed major railway construction, rarely was share capital so oversubscribed that the entire final bill for a project could be met upfront. Nor would it need to be ..... then or now. I've seen neither any suggestions by the L&B or EA that the reinstatement will be approached with other than a professionally managed staged approach, nor that there's any intention of committing to reckless overspend.

    Maybe it's just me, but I perceive some significant difference in intent between genuine interest in the strategic approach to this (or any other) project and grabbing at straws.
     
  5. AD29935

    AD29935 New Member

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    Its interesting to note that the L&B have submitted business plans as part of their planning applications. The plans partially relate to the viability of the extended line as an ongoing business, but they also outline costings for the completion of Phase IIA. Looking at the extraordinary thoroughness of their work, my hunch is that they would rather be seen to be addressing these concerns up front (even if they don't need to) rather than risk being perceived to be 'dodging' difficult questions on procedural grounds.

    Various criticisms have been made of the original business plan, and the L&B have in turn attempted to respond to some of those criticisms. I suspect the truth is that these figures (both for and against) are more likely to be used to justify existing opinions than to convert anyone to the opposite view!
     
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  6. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    I don't discount the possibility of straw grabbing - but think it ill behoves those who support a project to dismiss out of court the concerns of those affected by that project.
     
  7. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    While heritage rail operations tend not be choice No.1 for most 'wannabe' millionaires over the age of 12, a modicum of viability is undoubtedly beneficial. I certainly don't eschew discussions along those lines, but equally I do tend to note from which direction and at what stage questions emerge. In the case of the current L&B planning application, both give me pause for thought.

    Unfashionable perhaps, but if attempts to refrain from first forming opinions on unsubstantiated supposition, then bandying same around as definitive fact puts me out of step with the sensibilites of some, then I'm out of step. So be it. To conclude from anything I've posted that reasonable local concerns are being dismissed 'out of court' is quite simply an extrapolation too far and a charge I utterly refute.

    Any who care to read my earlier posts on the subject will note the economic wellbeing of the local community and of Exmoor NP feature repeatedly. These aren't concerns I've noted are so much as considered, let alone addressed by the loudest serial objectors in any planning submissions to date. Against this, am I then to conclude such objections represent any overwhelming or even majority locally held view?

    Within any heritage business model, economic viability is a singularly difficult component to quantify and very few such railway operations could properly be called 'commercially successful' in the broadest accepted sense. At 15" gauge and over, the only steam lines I'm aware of with minimal volunteer input (operationally at least) are the VoR, IMR and Snowdon Mountain (could anyone please comment on this aspect of the Dartmouth operation?). At the other end of the spectrum, the W&L is possibly the major NG line most reliant on volunteer effort.

    Without knowledge of specifics, I'm utterly unable to speculate on whatever model the extended L&B ultimately adopts, or how operational viability is thereby affected and have no intention of being dragooned into fruitless discourse based on surmise.
     
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  8. trewyn

    trewyn New Member

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    Although there is a tendency on this forum to 'zone in' on Gold Blend objections, I note that recently the owner of 'The Halt' bungalow has also submitted another objection. There has also been an objection from neighbouring Heddon Hall.

    I wouldn't like to be the ENPA planners - they appear to be damned if they do pass the application, damned if they don't!

    Just picking up on this as I noticed it when writing the first part of my post - I believe Brecon, Llanberis and Launceston are all also commercial operations with minimal/no volunteers. There may be others.
     
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  9. simon

    simon Resident of Nat Pres

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  10. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

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    The correspondence from Heddon Hall is not so much an objection, as flagging up reservations over surface water drainage. I think there has been an issue here in the recent past. If I remember rightly I think his words were something like: "I cannot yet offer my full support to the reinstatement". Which on the face of it is fair enough.
    The owners of "The Halt" are merely reiterating their existing objection, and from what little I can gather, there seems to be a lot more to this particular issue than meets the eye. However, I have no doubt that ENPA are fully apprised of that situation.
     
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  11. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    With the sad history of flooding in the area, it's only natural the matter is raised. It's essential that the railway and Exmoor Associates assist all efforts to mitigate a potentially serious issue. I've absolutely no doubt that civil engineers will stay very alert to this and plan accordingly
     
  12. Felix Holt

    Felix Holt Guest

    The L&B applications not on the agenda for ENPA's December meeting ...... :Morewaitingisrequired:
     
  13. clam1952

    clam1952 New Member

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    Not exactly unexpected, obviously not very high on the ENPA's priority list.
     
  14. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

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    It is the largest development they have ever had to deal with, and I'm sure it sits at the forefront of the ENPA committees collective consciousness. Sometimes, perhaps like an albatross...
     
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  15. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Sorry for being slow, I confess I don't look in here as often as I should, but is there any particular reason they keep putting the decision off - are they waiting for any particular reports or assessments to come in for instance?

    Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
     
  16. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    I suspect they are scared to death (a politer version of what I really mean) in case they make a procedural mistake and make themselves liable to a potentially ruinous High Court action. This is the sort of instance where this really might happen.

    Paul H.
     
  17. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Thanks, so it's basically like me constantly rereading an essay until 2 minutes before the submission time and then submitting it even though I actually finished it last week?

    Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
     
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  18. Kingscross

    Kingscross Member

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    Exmoor National Park are a tiny local authority - there's only about 75 people working for the whole organisation. I think there's only 2 or 3 in the whole planning department - so I can forgive them for taking their time to make sure they arrive at the correct decision.
     
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  19. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Not quite. I do not know the exact procedures which apply to planning applications in National Parks but the basic position with planning applications is that anyone can make one, even if it is not in respect of land which they control, provided due notice is served upon those who do have such control. The planning authority has to be notified of this and ensure this has been done. As a former, well respected, boss of mine would put it"serve a notice on the two dogs mating in the corner of the field if it prevents a court action". Like all kinds of public procedures, great emphasis is placed on the right public and private notice being given. It may well be considered that amendments to proposals are so significant as to require re-advertisement.

    Of course what constitutes "significant" is another cause for dispute. Don't be surprised if this has some way to go.

    Paul H
     
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  20. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

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    Softly softly catchee monkey, hey?
    I keep thinking about how long they had to wait at Robertsbridge, and they kicked off some 18 months before the L&B
     
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