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Lynton and Barnstaple - Operations and Development

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by 50044 Exeter, Dec 25, 2009.

  1. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

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    My understanding is slightly different, in that a TWAO can grant compulsory purchase powers but that they don't come automatically - they need to be specifically requested when the TWAO is applied for.


    Keith
     
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  2. Miff

    Miff Part of the furniture Friend

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    I don’t know about L&B but RVR have said they will request CPO powers in their TWA application. I’m sure both railways would prefer not to use CPOs if they can obtain the land by negotiation.

    As others have said the TWA process can be lengthy and expensive, especially if a Public Inquiry is found necessary. After the inquiry you then have to wait for the inspector’s recommendation and finally the Minister’s decision (which does not have to concur with the recommendation).
     
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  3. lynbarn

    lynbarn Well-Known Member

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    The only winners if this all goes to a public inquiry will be the legal teams, money that could have been spent on rebuilding the railway will have to be used for this, I just hope it doesn't go that far.
     
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  4. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Depends on who gets lumbered with the legal bill. The only thing you can guarantee is it won't be the lawyers.
     
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  5. AD29935

    AD29935 New Member

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    Hi folks, apologies for barging in as a newbie - I've been following this thread with interest!

    As a recently joined member of the the L&B, I spent some time trying to get to grips with the process of the TWAO.

    If anyone is interested, I can thoroughly recommend this 34-page "basic" guide to how the TWAO process works (there is also a more "comprehensive" version but I haven't dared try to read that yet!)

    My understanding is that any powers granted by a TWAO would need to be fully specified in the application. The range of powers is potentially wide-ranging, but judgement will assess the relevance and necessity of the powers being applied for. So it's not just a question of getting permission to build the railway itself, its also about how the reconstruction is undertaken.

    I should emphasise that I have no official involvement with the L&B or its application, nor do I have any professional expertise in this matter! :)

    AD
     
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  6. Miff

    Miff Part of the furniture Friend

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    The WHR weathered a High Court case and two public inquiries, but it turned out good.
     
  7. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for that. I think it's something quite a few of us are battling with presently, mainly due to the opacity of the process, and it's relative newness. I guess because there is no public consultation process like with a planning application, there is very much a sense of "behind closed doors" with a TWO.
    And I suppose with such sensitive issues as CP powers involved, there has to be...
     
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  8. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    ..... if only because Prezza wanted to get away sharpish for a game of Croquet ..... Turned out fine again! :)

    Damned good informative 1st post from @AD29935 too (welcome to the madhouse btw!).
     
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  9. Miff

    Miff Part of the furniture Friend

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    I don’t believe that’s true. The inquiry inspector recommended refusal of the TWA. John Prescott overruled him and granted it.
     
  10. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Strewth Miff .... chill! T'was merely my lighthearted take on Mr Prescott's possible motivation for those events you describe. :)
    article-1083762-025A5C4B000005DC-593_468x286.jpg.cf.jpg
     
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  11. lynbarn

    lynbarn Well-Known Member

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    Its good to have a sense of humor when you are dealing with weighty matters such as planning and TWO's. Of course we all want what is best for the Railway and North Devon and to a point I can understand Mrs Grob's point of view (no I am not going soft on her) but unless she can contribute the same or more money than the revived railway is going to put back into the community of North Devon, then the needs of the few have to be outwayed by the needs of the many.
     
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  12. AD29935

    AD29935 New Member

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    Thanks :)

    I can't take any credit I'm afraid - the L&B website linked to this as part of their information page about the planning applications and the proposed TWAO.
    I have to admit though, I find the process absolutely fascinating... not sure how many others would agree with that!
     
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  13. lynbarn

    lynbarn Well-Known Member

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    An order made under the Transport and Works Act 1992 (the TWA) is the usual way of authorising a new railway or tramway scheme in England and Wales, except for nationally significant rail schemes in England which require development consent under the Planning Act 2008. Other types of scheme that can be authorised by TWA orders are described in this guide.

    Having just read that and my understanding is that as the ENPA is the Planning Authority would they not want the rebuilding of the railway under the planning act of 2008 and not a TWO? If that is the case then there will be no need for a TWO on that part of the railway? And this all makes sense for why it is taking its time.
     
  14. brmp201

    brmp201 Member

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    Of course, once planning permission is granted, really serious fund-raising (because it has already taken serious fund-raising to get this far!) and construction can begin. We just can't run any trains until we have the TWAO.

    There is an Exmoor NPA still scheduled for the 5th December (which one of the L&B director's that I spoke to was hopeful for). Maybe we'll get something for Christmas?!!
     
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  15. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

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    [QUOTEThere is an Exmoor NPA still scheduled for the 5th December (which one of the L&B director's that I spoke to was hopeful for). Maybe we'll get something for Christmas?!![/QUOTE]
    Letters to Santa?
     
  16. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I've seen too many objections to planning applications of major benefit to large numbers of folks where certain (not all) objections are frankly definable as purely selfish, with or without the added suspicion that one is occasionally looking at a chancer on the make (best be clear on this point, I've seen absolutely no evidence to suggest that, whatever her motivations, Mrs.G falls into that category).

    A pleasant surprise here was the public consultation into the offshore "Rampion Array", a 400MW clean energy project now approaching completion. We had a few "it spoils my view" comments, but speaking to the project manager, he expressed shock and delight at the 85% support for the scheme from around 4700 who visited the public exhibition of the scheme and (reported later by our local media) a similar level of support from nearly twice that number who responded in writing. Sometimes, I'm proud to live where I do!

    I earnestly hope that the scale of the many benefits the rivived L&B will (I'm certain) bring to wider economy will outweigh the objections of any one appellant. For far too long, areas such as Exmoor (and the Blythe Valley!) have suffered the enforced exodus of their youth to the benefit of of all categories of those with wealth and a very often limited interest in the longer term future economic wellbeing of an area and who place excessive importance on their supposed right to live in some bucolic delusion of their own design.

    The last sentiment could actually been expressed in two very short words, but I try to eschew such profanity ...... to a point!
     
  17. Miff

    Miff Part of the furniture Friend

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    I know, but croquet is a deadly serious business :(
     
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  18. AD29935

    AD29935 New Member

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    I've been trying to unpick quite what is meant by 'nationally significant rail schemes in England'.

    There is some legal guidance online which suggests that in order to be a Nationally Significant Infrastructure Project (and therefore falling under the 2008 Planning Act rather than the Transport and Works Act 1992) a railway development must meet the criteria set out in Part 3 Section 14 (1)(k) and Section 25 of the 2008 Act.

    Construction of a railway is within section 14(1)(k) (i.e. can be regarded as an NSIP) only if—

    (a)the railway will (when constructed) be wholly in England,

    (b)the railway will (when constructed) be part of a network operated by an approved operator, and

    (c)the construction of the railway is not permitted development.


    Not much wiser, I then looked at the 1992 Act, the 2008 Act, and the Railways Act of 1993 (which is also referred to). I can honestly say I am more puzzled than when I started!

    However, one piece of legal online legal advice appears to conclude (based on the above) that the Planning Act "does not apply to promoters who do not meet the above criteria such as, for example, local authorities, Transport for London or heritage railways." So the conclusion seems to be that the 2008 Act can only be used for a major network project undertaken by Network Rail - although quite how that conclusion was reached remains a little unclear!
     
  19. Kempenfelt 82e

    Kempenfelt 82e New Member

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    Just a few suggestions and observations.

    I appreciate the necessity to get the decision correct and to eliminate, or at the very least reduce as much as possible any chance of an appeal. My personal view of the situation is that a short formal update on the website, ideally say monthly would be useful just to keep people's mind at rest and to provide confidence that matters are progressing. It by no means needs to be informative given the sensitive nature of the application, however just an official update explaining that the current progress includes responding to additional questions (as suggested in a few of the most recent posts above) would go a long way.

    I must admit I'm not a fan of any talk or suggestions about CPR. Any talk to relevant land owners or through the grapevine via forums and social media really doesn't help the cause. Even when its meant well or purely for discusion, what if's etc, it's a highly emotive subject and if any of us were on the receiving end i'm sure we too would objecting to having our hard earned assets taken away from us. I believe this has caused problems to those trying to do things professionally and correctly in the past and I can fully appreciate why! If we turn the argument on its head and it was the local government trying to put a road through our front or rear garden, I'm sure all of us would do whatever we could to get the application rejected, I know I would!

    Best not assume that the application will be approved either! Any talk suggesting that its going to happen sooner or later is arrogant and doesn't give off a good impression of the society, even if this is your own opinion, it can be damaging towards progress.

    I am very much supportive of this project and have really want to see this achievement realised from a very early age. However I do urge people to think about what they post and how it could be perceived by anyone not quite as supportive as we all are.

    Best Wishes

    Paul
     
  20. Small Prairie

    Small Prairie Part of the furniture

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    Well rather then keep questioning the hearsay etc as to when somdthing might happen.

    I messaged exmoor national park for an offical answer. Its look promising that it will go ahead i to meetings . Possibly Christmas /February?

    Heres wbat they said

    Thank you for your enquiry regarding the progress of the Lynton & Barnstaple Railway planning applications. By way of brief update, further to the most recent consultation exercise for the applications, which took place earlier this year, the applicants have wanted to come back with some further information and detail on some of the matters that have arisen. The applicants have for some months been preparing details to be submitted in support of the applications. The further details are anticipated to include accurate and richer information particularly, but not solely, in relation to proposals at Churchtown, Parracombe. We anticipate being able to re-consult locally on this further details over the next few weeks or so and that will see the applications move forward.

    I hope this is some help in the meantime and thanks again for the follow-up on the applications. Should you wish to discuss this further please give the case officer, Joe White a call on 01398 322254.
     
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