Cab radio (and radio systems generally)

Recently work has made me wonder about the use of radio systems on heritage railways. I know some railways use these around the site as a general comms system, but how many use them from a train movements perspective? Can you hear them on the footplate? Is it the driver's job to answer it or the fireman (or maybe the guard instead of the loco)? Can it be used on the move? What training is given?

I know how the national system works but interested to see how anyone else has evolved it!

 

We use them, but usually unable to hear them in the cab. Not used for operational purposes as such, usually just for emergency community at ions really. They can be used on the move.

 

High spec radios are used for shunting at Kidder and Bridgnorth. All moves are under the control of the shunter / guard who will instruct the loco crew what moves are required. For propelling moves the shunter / guard must transmit continuously, the phrase "keep coming" about every 5 seconds. If the driver cant hear the shunter / guard they stop.Radio protocol is covered by the rules/general appendix

 

The NYMR uses them extensively for shunting and general communication. drivers and guards each collect one at the start of the shift. They are used as the preferred method when shunting but not as the preferred method for formally communicating with the signalbox (use SPT) or for starting passenger trains (green flag & whistle). Shunting is on a different channel from general comms. Station staff also have them and use a different channel. There is a laid down procedure/set of instructions.
I don't normally have a problem hearing them on the footplate but, for the majority of times of use, the loco is not working hard and noisily.

 

We use them for shunting into and out of the carriage shed at Sheffield Park. With the vac ejector running it is sometimes very difficult to hear what is being said, so staff must come to a clear understanding of the shunting instructions prior to the movement taking place.

 

And at Arley too when required.

 

The R&ER has used radio to run the entire line for decades

 

On the Bluebell, they are used for shunting moves in / out of the carriage shed, but I believe aren't generally authorised anywhere else (where hand signals or lamps are used). There is a written protocol that sounds basically similar to what @threelinkdave outlined for SVR use.

For the Flying Scotsman event, a railway-wide radio system was put in place. It was mainly to ease the flow of communication for people on the ground at various locations (including marshalling footpath crossings). Each loco carried a radio but it was explicit in the instructions that they did not override the provisions of the rule book. In the event of an untoward incident, the radio could have been used to get information from the loco to the Operating Supervisor more quickly, but the formal means of dealing with the incident would still have been as laid out in the normal rule book. I had three days operation (one full line turn on Flying Scotsman; one as the loco yard Running Foreman and one on the spare engine at Horsted Keynes) and never had need to use the radio.

Tom

 

I am a bit mixed on the whole thing. After working on the tube, where we had a splendid network, I can see the benefits for shunting but think these are best out of the public eye. I'm less enamoured of them in full view. I've yet to see a proper cab fitment, I think the RHDR have them.

How do the R&ER use them? Are they in place of SPTs?

 

All movements apart from within station limits at the two termini are subject to radio'd approval from the Controller. There are no signals except at Ravenglass station. Lineside phones are available at intermediate passing loops and the larger stations for non-controlling purposes or as a backup if the radio is unavailable (batteries running flat are not that uncommon).

 

Very often the stock for trains 2and 3 are berthed in the engine lines. Because of the curves and limited line of sight moving the trsin into the platform radio is essential and is inevitably in the public eye as you propel down the platform

 

The Strathspey Railway use them. Particularly useful when returning a train to the carriage shed. Mostly audible, but in the Cairngorms even the mobile phone network can be patchy...

 

I believe the Bure Valley railway in Norfolk uses a radio dispatch system similar to the R&ER. Train staff note down the times of communicating on a standard pad and hand this in to the controller when they return to Aylsham. (Observed about 12 years ago when I last visited this line.)

 

I have recently been to the Sandstone festival in South Africa where the whole 2' gauge line (16+ miles) is controlled by radio with instructions from the controller.

 

I can't see how it would 'assure' the public. They rock up expecting to see 'old fashioned' signals like this (angles hand at 45º) and a guard blowing his whistle and waving his green flag as the visible elements of 'safety'. I am certain that they don't analyse it one iota further than that.

'Even' the mobile phone network? There are huge swathes of Scotland where mobile coverage is non-existent. And when I hear people complain that their smartphone is slow, 'because they can't get 4G', I smile a little smile and hope (once again) that 1G and broadband that is actually faster than dialup might one day reach where I live...

 

Yep, "even" the mobile phone network; I feel your pain as a fellow resident of Scotland. Sadly, NP doesn't have a function allowing you to mark text "this is tongue in cheek"....

As an aside, back in December, Tory MSP Jamie Greene was complaining long and loud about lousy phone coverage in Scotland, and slagging off the SNP for it, as you can see here...




He was forced onto a diet of humble pie within 48 hours when it was pointed out to him that telecommunications are not devolved and are Westminster's responsibility, meaning that he was criticising the failures of the Tory government in Westminster for the problems in Scotland...

 

The Romney Hythe and Dymchurch have dedicated cab radio systems, a benefit from recent accidents is that if really needed the locos can be dead manned from external command, also locos locations are known to the controller via the gps of the radios shown onto a laptop at the control room

The bure valley do indeed have radios and also an interesting control system, when I last visited it was explained that the size of each item of stock is known and give an id on their computer planning system (a train simulator game programme map of the line basically) that way when a train is dispatched they know it will fit into the loops as the software map shows lengths of both stock and lines, with whatever stock it's made of, they do record paper copies of authorities to the train crew ,if it all fails they have tokens for emergency working that a chap in a van quickly gets out to site if needed and they swap over at passing points as required, amazing to see but works well.

 

Sorry to be a pain kestreleyes - what does 'dead manned' mean please?

 

It means in this respect they have the ability to shut down the loco in an extreme emergency ,something that's only possible through their dedicated system, the Rh&DRly are a great railway in the respect of trailing new technology,especially the radio stuff.