Tornado to haul certain timetabled trains on S&C: Feb 14-16

My impression on the Thursday was that the connecting Leeds and Bradford trains were very well patronised though, so it wouldn't surprise me if the average revenue to Northern was around £15-£20 per return ticket.

Also 5500 travelled on the steam train but I reckon you've got to add a bit for people travelling one way on the duplicate. Maybe another 500 on the three days? I'd say maybe £50-60k gross additional revenue.

Very interesting to read your logs Shireman, thanks for that.

 

The key point surely is that this is a level of demand way in excess of what Northern could reasonably expect at this time of year, and has earned them and the S&C a huge publicity bonus that would have cost at least as much in PR/marketing/advertising, but without any direct fare income.

Despite my reservations earlier, I am delighted that this worked so well, and with such positive feedback.

 

The timings for the Skipton-Appleby Trains are in the pdf below. I've grouped them by train as the 1044 only has one stop on the long drag whereas the 1715 is the 'proper service train' with the Horton stop too, as well as Garsdale across the top. Don't ask why there are no details for the 1715 above Settle on the 14th particularly as it seemed to have been the quickest of the 3 if my start and end points are accurate. I did have a coffee and cake but don't remember just not timing despite the problems with my stopwatch and the GPS needing it's batteries changed. Neither should have stopped me recording something!!!! C'est la vie....

 

Several BR class 4 tanks have run on the main line in modern times and it would be good to see some of them doing so again on suitable routes, i.e not too long and without steep gradients that would limit the load to an uneconomic size.

 

Just to add my vote of thanks and appreciation to those of Rule 55, Sean Emmett, 30567 and others for what must have been a fairly painstaking task to record, transcribe and format the running data at the level of detail that you have published. I think I would characterise the value of your output with the analogy that, if Plandampf was the Symphony, then you have provided the Sheet Music! As such, these logs will prove to be just as enduring, as a record of these eventful days, as some of the marvellous video and still images which we have been blessed with over the past week.

And on top of recording/ timing/ dealing with stopwatch and GPS issues, finding the time to chat and engage with fellow passengers....well, I think that's quite awesome!! Would definitely merit a special category all of its own in your next annual awards!!

 

OK, so how about.....

Still in Northern territory, a secondary route that is untroubled by high density of traffic, that is virtually identical to Skipton-Appleby in length, and that has the benefit of facilities to turn locomotives at both ends.

We are talking about Hull-Bridlington-Scarborough. We are talking about a route that has major "Visitor Destination" potential at both ends. We are talking about major conurbations/ metropolitan areas just beyond its immediate hinterland (plus good access to the whole TPE catchment area). And beyond the 70 mph traverse of the Holderness Plain from Hull as far as Bridlington , we are about talking the challenge of Bempton bank with its 1 in 92 northbound for five-or-so miles (but somewhat less southbound).

I don't doubt that there would be a shed-load of constraints/ concerns/ feasibility issues surrounding such a suggestion, but I'm sure that this is what Northern will have had to deal with the make Plandampf happen and make it the success that it has been. And if they weren't much good at it before, they're probably a heck of a lot better (and wiser) now.

Nothing (IMHO) could substitute for the majesty of the S&C and the grandeur of its scenery - at least, not south of the Border. But the premise of this post is that it might be considered elsewhere, somewhere, and the vast open expanses and big skies of the Holderness and Yorkshire Wolds region certainly wouldn't make a bad second-best.

Not much steam goes this way nowadays. So there could be interest in the novelty value of steam on this line. And as I understand it, the route is not particularly remunerative at the present time and might benefit from the same halo effect that it is hoped that Plandampf might bestow on the S&C.

I know this post and all these musings fall into that equally-cursed-and-blessed "Wouldn't it be Nice" category, but this would be one Plandampf that I would definitely be happy to queue for.........could it ever happen?

 

Much has already been written about the trains, informed and otherwise, and, as now seems to be the norm, thousands of posts not remotely connected to the Northern Plandampf have been accepted onto the thread.

I must say I was surprised at how few of the familiar faces appeared up north and I'm disappointed that only one proper 'on train' report, the excellent one posted by our roving reporter, Oswald T Whistle appeared in the entire thread. As one of the idiots who did all 12 trains I didn't find the time to post one - sighs of relief all round I'm sure!!

But I thought this Northern Plandampf thread wouldn't be complete without a sort of 'combined highlights' report about the performance in a bit of context.

Readers may or may not know that much of the journey from Appleby to Ais Gill Summit is on a ruling grade of 1 in 100, as is the Settle to Ribblehead section on the return. The southern runs are made more difficult by the stop at Kirkby Stephen while the 1715 northern runs had the additional stop on the long drag at Horton-in-Ribblesdale. There was also a 30 mph slack for the big engine through the northbound platform at Horton.

Off the S&C there are 5 mile+ climbs worthy of mention both ways over Bell Busk, between Settle Junction and Long Preston. Unfortunately this is ruined by a slack through Hellifield on the Appleby-Skipton trains.

As has been posted, the line speed on the entire route from Skipton to Appleby is only 60 mph and Tornado, as all mainline certified engines, has a 45 mph restriction when travelling tender first. There are reasons for this, the most obvious ones being safety and the lack of visibility for the driver and fireman and the distance from the front of the tender to the driving wheels. The observant of you will have noted that there are no sanders on the rear driving wheels - the leading axle when running tender first.

The start from Appleby is on a downgrade and meets the 1 in 100 at Ormside. The speeds here on the six trains were: 44.9; 43.4; 43.9; 45.4; 45.2 and 50 on the final 1457 departure. Tornado could easily be heard over the whine of the Class 67 as it got into its work. The climb at 1 in 100 continues to Griseburn where there area couple of miles at 1 in 166/200 and level track over Crosby Garratt Viaduct. The speeds at the end of the 1 in 100 section were: 38.7; 36.3; 37.7; 40.6; 38;34 - the latter lower speed was due to the TPWS kicking in after Helm Tunnel, stopping the train and requiring a restart after milepost 272 1/2. The grade kicks up to 1 in 100 soon after the train bursts out of Crosby Tunnel all the way to Kirkby Stephen. At the braking point a mile below the station, speeds varied from as low as 29 in the wet to 40 on the driest run.

The railhead at Kirkby Stephen was poor and the drivers came to an agreement to assist the train out of the station to attack the climb to Ais Gill Summit 7 miles away. The ruling grade is 1 in 100 apart from half a mile at 1 in 300 soon after Birkett Tunnel. Every climb was really noisy and reflected the conditions with occasional slips evident. The speeds past the summit board were 36.4; 45.6; 38.7; 42.5; 41.1 and 45.6 respectively. The train with Class 67 was equivalent to load 11/12 and hold up well compared to trains starting at Appleby and running through Kirkby Stephen non-stop.

The big engine ran at close to its maximum of 45 across the top through Rise Hill Tunnel before a slack of 30 through Dent station. There was a further slack of 25 across Ribblehead (or Batty Moss to give it it's old name) Viaduct before we trundled down to Horton, a stop on the 0825 from Appleby, finally to Settle Station where all southbound trains stopped.

Coming off the S&C speed the trains were accelerated through Settle Junction at speeds of 47.6; 43.1; 44.4; 45.3; 44.5 and 44.3 mph respectively. All trains held speed close to 42 through Long Prerston before slowing through Hellifield Station at 15-20 mph. That was a pity as it is right in the middle of 2 miles at 1 in 114. Speeds were in the low to mid 30s coming off the 1 in 114,except for the final train which achieved 38.6. after this it was a 9 mile run at the maximum of 45 and sometimes a bit more to our destination of Skipton

The Skipton to Appleby services all started with a sharp departure from the station. The Class 67 was in whining ETS mode and did no assisting whatsoever, even on the 1 in 100 restarts from Settle and Horton. Tornado was allowed to stretch its wheels a bit on the run to Settle. The climb to Bell Busk is not as steep in this direction but is still 5 1/2 miles long at grades of 1 in 132/165/150/300 and finally a mile or so at 1 in 132. All the climbs were noisy and it was good to hear the clean engine sounds coming from the front. Speeds onto the climb were 54.5; 48.6; 50; 47; 48 and 50.5 respectively. Such relatively gentle gradients were hardly challenging and speeds were held or in fact increased to 58.3; 55; 50; 48.4; 52.7; and 51.4 at the start of the final mile and a quarter of 1 in 132. Speeds fell slowly on this final section to 54.8; 50.4; 46.2; 45.1; 46.9 and 46.9 respectively.

The climb away from Settle goes through an 'orrible damp cutting and through the short, always wet, Stainmore (or Taitlands) Tunnel just over 2 miles away. After a short 1 in 200 out of the station the grade is 1 in 100 most of the way to Ribblehead Station. There were a number of small slips as Tornado lifted the train onto the 1 in 100. Speeds into the tunnel were creditable from a standing start at: 39.8; 45.2; 39.3; 38; 35.3 and 29.4 respectively. The final train slipped on the first viaduct out of the station.

On the trains that did not stop at Horton, speeds on Ribblehead approach, just before braking for the viaduct were: 42.1;45.5 and 39.1 respectively. For the stoppers they were: 36; 36.2 and 34.6. All more than respectable. The slack across the viaduct impairs speed considerably but does lead to a noisy charge at Blea Moor Tunnel. Speeds into the tunnel were: 31; 36.3; 34.9; 33.4; 26.6 and 32.6 respectively.

There is a short climb away from Dandry Mire Viaduct, north of Garsdale, to Ais Gill Summit Board on the northern runs. The speeds at the summit board were, for the non-stoppers, the 1044 ex-Skipton: 46; 50.5 and 49.9 respectively. For the 1715 ex-Skipton Stoppers I think my stopwatch went a bit mental more than once as my notes show me missing the climb completely on the 14th; then showing an unlikely summit speed of 59 on the 15th and much more sensible 51.5 on the final run of the Plandampf.

From a timer's perspective that was it as it's all downhill to Kirkby Stephen and onwards to the final destination of Appleby.

Tornado performed really well despite a fair share of the runs being in the wet. The tender first running was really impressive and the return journeys were all really good, non-stop and stoppers. It was a shame the big green engine was constrained by the 60 mph track speed on the whole length of the journey but that's how it is. I can't think of many engines that could have performed as well over the 3 days. No glitches were apparent to the travelling public though I'm sure there must have been a few issues along the way.

We owe the A1 Steam locomotive Trust a huge debt of gratitude for providing the big green engine in its usual immaculate condition both mechanically and visually. The valve settings seem to be perfect. Just listen to the soundtracks of the many excellent recording on YouTube (other services are available!!). The beat is so even it hardly sounds like a 3 cylinder engine.

Thanks to DB's Charter Service wing under the auspices of Richard Corser for facilitating the event, including at least getting us a matching rake, even if it was in Anglian colours. All the carriages were comfortable and warm. Didn't hear one complaint.

The crews did an excellent job and were:

Tuesday Morning:

Bob Hart (TI), Pete Sheridan, Driver, Tony Jones on the shovel.

Wednesday and Thursday:

Jim Smith (TI), Steve Hanczar, Driver, and again Tony Jones on the shovel - no-one can get it out of his hands!! - though there was a fresh faced trainee fireman, Andy Denton on the afternoon runs doing a bit as well.

On the afternoon Skipton-Appleby run, Bob Hart replaced Jim Smith as TI.

Thanks to Northern for having the bottle to run the event. Little did they know the impact it would have in the media and consequently on passenger numbers.

Unlike in the south, Signal Control played a not insignificant positive role in making sure the trains ran close to time, including some amazingly rapid turnarounds in Skipton. Many thanks for that.

I've posted pdf files of most of the timings and speeds I managed to take using mileposts in the daylight and the redoubtable Garmin GPSmap78 for speeds and mileages when it was too dark, or when, as happened 3 times, I did not have a seat on the milepost side of the train. I don't take timing that seriously but it was a unique event and someone had to. If anyone else did time all the trains I'd like to see copies of theirs. What with rapid departures and queuing I didn't have a chance to get the weight of the train either so if anyone did, please post it. My guess is 385 tons or thereabouts including the Class 67, around 410 tons with the passenger loadings.

All in all an excellent first 'proper' Plandampf and hopefully there will be more, though I doubt any location will match the S&C for sheer entertainment and spectacular scenery.

 

Fantastic summary of 60163's performance over the three days. And in such contrast to so much of the noise that has permeated this thread over recent weeks. A big thank you from me!

 

None are now passed for Mainline running

 

80079/80/98 have all run on the mainline, the latter 2 are owned by (under care of?) the PRCLT at Butterly. Presumably if regular work could be found a return to the mainline couldn't be out of the question for the latter 2? Alas 80079 seems a long way off steaming, let alone mainline.

They are useful locos for mainline work (especially in pairs!); powerful, good visibility in reverse and cleared for 75mph running - just a little light on their feet!

 

You have set a standard that I doubt will ever be equalled on NP. How refreshing that someone is willing to invest so much time and effort (and money) to keep us informed. Such a contrast to so much of what is posted. Well done and thank you.

 

So long as the lines are secondary routes then there shouldn't be too much issue, 45mph limit in reverse and there are a surprising number of lines where this could be fitted in.

 

Where's the 5-figure sums per loco going to come from though? And do the respective locos have large enough volunteer groups to meet the demands of a support crew? It's not nice easy days riding behind their loco in a coach...

 

Not strictly on topic, but just to clarify one point. Although 80098 was passed for 75 mph last time it was on the mainline it will now fall foul of more recent Network Rail restrictions, having 5'8" driving wheels.
Ian

 

I believe Network Railway Group Standard GO/RT3440 Issue 2 still define the limits for steam engines (driving wheel diameters):
<5ft max 35mph; <5ft 8in max 50mph; <6ft 2in max 60mph; and >6ft 2in max 75mph.
Some derogations have been granted, allowing higher speeds, but are rare.

 

That'll do nicely, are you watching Mr Bunker?? Bring it on.

 

Steam beano just hit the mat and a revelation, I quote 'on the initial 8.25am (this is a Railway publication ?) out of Appleby, the Peppercorn engine was forced to accept assistance from the '67' behind the locomotive to keep schedule with its train that weighed some 375 tons without the diesel'
Was this common knowledge? because it was certainly news to me...

 

It reads to me as though it's saying the 8.25am service out of Appleby had planned or "forced" assistance at some point, not necessarily straight out of the blocks. I can't see a big problem with identifying the service that way, as opposed to saying 2Z22, the 0825 Appleby - Skipton service, or similar....

 

That's how I read it.