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Is a physical rail connection important?

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Zoomeg, Oct 27, 2016.

  1. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    Its do-able BUT its further than I am inclined to drive without a spare driver in the car/act as a child wrangler
     
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  2. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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    that has yet to be proven. It may be the case that the line as far as the Park and Ride was the most profitable format. Times have changed and I wonder how many visitors to Swanage will come by train all the way.
     
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  3. Miff

    Miff Part of the furniture Friend

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    Rother Valley Railway have recently installed a Network Rail connection which cannot be used by incoming charters, since the siding it connects to is not long enough. It is justified apparently by the ease of ballast/rail plant deliveries etc and by training contract opportunities.
     
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  4. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    The cost model can encompass cost saving as well as revenue generation. Ballast is the obvious one - if you are getting ballast in by the trainload, even a few pounds per ton reduction in delivery charge relative to road transport makes a significant impact on the bottom line, as well as helping maintain relationships with neighbours by keeping the equivalent of perhaps 40 - 50 lorry movements per train off the local roads.

    Obviously any particular connection would have to be looked at on its own merits, but I get the sense that of all the uses they are put to, the utility is often in inverse proportion to the glamour of the working! In other words, the odd incoming charter is what will probably generate photographs in magazines, but financially is likely to be the icing on the cake, rather than the cake itself.

    Tom
     
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  5. Lplus

    Lplus Well-Known Member

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    But they are, because to some they are important. especially if those people are the ones who raise the money and do most of the work.

    And you missed the point of my comment completely. Mr Hitch talked about useful being easier to justify. If the sole reason for putting in a connection was for usefulness - ballast trains, the odd visiting loco and maybe a tour or two - without the volunteers feeling the connection was important for their line it just wouldn't happen.

    If the volunteers didn't think heritage railways were important enough to spend their time and money on the only line we would have in the UK would be the PDR - and maybe not even that.
     
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  6. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    The reasons for the NYMR's connection with Network Rail are pretty obvious to those that know the Railway. However, one recent additional use is to bring in train loads of ballast. even though there is a quarry within a few yards of the Railway at New Bridge and which has been the traditional source of the lines ballast for many years. This method does avoid the ballast having to be dropped onto the floor and then loaded into wagons but it must also be a cheaper option for it to be considered in the first place.
     
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  7. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    As I suspected, "important" in this context seems to be a somewhat grandiose version of our old friend W.I.B.N. (or W.I.B.B.LE.) as some others would have it.

    PH
     
  8. John Stewart

    John Stewart Part of the furniture

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    All GWSR sites advertise it as "The Honeybourne Line" so I take it that is the ultimate objective.
     
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  9. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Equally the W in GWSR stands for Warwickshire but I doubt we'll be going there!
     
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  10. John Stewart

    John Stewart Part of the furniture

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    Pretend it's Worcestershire; no-one will ever know!;)
     
  11. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

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    The original objective was to retain a rail link between Cheltenham & Stratford upon Avon. Time and changing circumstances have changed this to perhaps a more realistic objective and, as far as I know, it is still a long term objective to link the GWSR to NR at Honeybourne Junction. Whether this is achievable, desirable or essential I shall leave to the future. My own opinion has already been expressed. Meanwhile, the Broadway extension is nearing its goal and too soon won't be soon enough.
     
  12. Mogul

    Mogul Member

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    If I could clear up a couple of misconceptions about Swanage's main line connection.
    1/ They have never presumed that we could run any old rolling stock out on to the main line. In fact the delays have come from the supply chain providing replacement DMU axles to main line standards. They always understood the requirements, its the dysfunctional state of the rolling stock industry that has caught them out.
    2/ The primary purpose of the connection is not so much for visitors to the heratage railway to arrive by train although a few might. Its to fulfill the founding aim of reinstating a full 'amenity' rail service to the isle of Purbeck which is poorly served by road. Its intended to be part of the local public transport infrastructure of the area and not just a tourist attraction. This is the basis on which around £5 million has been raised from local authorities and grant giving bodies to complete the project. In this way the connection is different to that of many other Heritage Railways.

    Of course it is also used for tampers, charters, visiting locos, ballast etc. Because Its There and convenient to use it for such items.
     
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  13. Lplus

    Lplus Well-Known Member

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    Indeed - WIBN was the driving force behind the start of all our heritage railways. WIBN is the driving force behind most volunteer activity - you really should start a campaign to put a stop to it elsewhere, as well as here.

    I sometimes really do wonder what you are doing in the heritage railway game at all.
     
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  14. steve45110

    steve45110 Member

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    He and others of similar habit, are just professional whingers, it is their default setting, can't see the positive in any aspect of life, not just railways. As they delight in coming up with denigrating initials, lets invent one for the other side.....EVF - EVerything Will Fail

    Let's turn it around, with some specific questions. for the EVF's
    1. What unopened lines anywhere in Britain do the EVF's think could and should be reopened, as either a heritage line or part of the network? Specific routes..

    2. How do they think all the heritage lines managed to reopen, given that they all started as a WIBN? A letter in the local paper asking for support and donations was a common starting point for many.

    3. Which existing lines should extend their mileage, if any?

    4. Do they think potential future long term benefits are a valid reason for expansion plans, or is the bottom line (cost) the only factor to take into consideration?
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2016
  15. Mogul

    Mogul Member

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    The important words to use to measure any proposal are ACHIEVABLE & SUSTAINABLE.
    The presidents of the past are not necessarily applicable in the current environment. A lot has changed since the 60s and 70s and continues to change. A sucessfull operation will take account of this.
     
  16. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    According to a relative of mine, bow sadly deceased, who lived at Swanage for several years, the branch train was not much used for shopping trips to Wareham on account of the lousy position of the station in relation to the town. For those travelling further afield the train made more sense although there was an alternative to Poole via the floating bridge. We shall see how it turns out.

    PH
     
  17. Mogul

    Mogul Member

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    Paul, you are correct in that Swanage does not see people traveling to / from Wareham town as being the major market. The tryal service is just that. A tryal. I'm sure there will be much to learn and eventually the link will find its niche.

    Having injected considerable funds the stakeholders will expect more than a token effort on the part of the railway to make it a success.
     
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  18. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Sorry to pop the balloon of outraged romanticism but I have had decades of hands on experience of railway preservation in various capacities. The expression "Wouldn't it be nice" was not invented by me but was often uttered by someone I knew. Every time you heard it uttered you knew it would not be matched by practical help. Railway preservation has always suffered from this.

    PH
     
  19. The coffee is infinitely worse :)

    Er... what would be wrong with EWF? :confused: Personally I prefer one for both 'sides' - HWGA (work it out).

    The very fact that we are talking about 'sides' doesn't reflect particularly well on anyone.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 1, 2016
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  20. gwralatea

    gwralatea Member

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    Can I be the first in 5 pages to say it probably depends on the line? Or has that already been taken?

    Speaking as a member of the newest line connected to the national network, I can say that it has been a godsend for us, because apart from anything else we're going to be a line that actually goes somewhere again. Accepting incoming charters will be lovely, but running into the NR station at Princes Risborough is the real prize IMO.

    The C&PRR will never be a very long line, because we got severed by the M40, but once PR has bedded in, there are sights on extending west to Aston Rowant. That will give us 6 miles, 3 stations and an NR connection, and that's probably us done. From next year we're 2 stations and 4.5 miles, after a couple of decades of being 3.5 miles and 1 station.
     

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