Best & Worst Locos to Drive

If you mean the J94 type, not sure about 'cab hazards', but from my limited experience they were responsive to drive and appeared to steam very well.

 

Wonder how the crews would've managed with something like the south african railways GL class???

There's 1 in MOSI manchester, enormous bugger!

 

Backhead injectors on an Austerity/ Which one(s0 have these? Not sure how you can rap your knuckles on the reg handle, either, but I guess anything is possible.

 

Fascinating thread, I can only comment from the firing side but to pick up a few points from my meagre 150 firing turns of experience on the WSR:

The Midland 4F is not as bad as it's reputation would suggest. You are short of shovel room making the choice of handle length and blade length a bit critical and it has got Midland injectors. Other than that if you keep it up close to the mark it seems OK. It is not built for comfort in any way. Only 3 turns on this loco so far.
The 7F's - now here is a bit of a mystery. 88 is an easier engine to work than 89 but then again 88 has had a lot of TLC under the expert eye of our CME and benefits from such refinements a drop grate section making disposal easier. Again you need to keep the pressure up on the climbs They both feel a bit more coal hungry than their Western counterparts and 89 is possibly more coal hungry than 88. (Apologies for using their S&D identities as they are both currently in BR black).
Prairie cabs are generally not roomy places but 4160 is not a hard engine to work as long as you remember where you are. The skinned knuckles are a good reminder.
Our Manor and mogul (ok - don't shoot me) are both very nice engines to work. I'd go as far as to say Odney is perhaps the easiest engine we have to work over the branch. Again all of the "Minehead refinements" are present and it will steam on nothing! Nice roomy cab to boot.
Raveningham Hall is also a nice engine to work, excellent damper control and it makes light work of our normal 7 or 8 coach loads. Plenty of cab space and very easy to overfire.
Kinlet Hall being unmodified and main line certified poses a slightly greater challenge. While it's plenty powerful enough there is less fine control over the damper settings. Still a cracking machine though and stepping up on either Hall always feels special. Lighting the Halls up is no more difficult than anything else but both of them take a little longer to bring round.
3850 another great engine and easy enough to prepare and to work. Tends to take the coal off of the middle of the grate where the drop section is. Huge power though and she does waddle a little bit. Riding in the front coach not recommended if you don't want to spill your tea.

They all need to be disposed and there is no doubt a drop section or rocking grate makes this easier. Digging out through the fire-hole door is no fun at all. Similarly they all need their smoke-boxes dug out in the morning. 1-3 barrow loads is the norm. Some of our fleet have modified ashpans which makes cleaning them a lot easier as all the ash is pulled out through quite a big door. Hopper ashpans are undoubtedly the hardest but that might be due to how we use them. We don't drop a hot fire when we come on shed at night but drop the ash in the morning after cleaning the grate. You always end up underneath pulling ash down on your head. The dust gets all over the frames as well despite all best efforts. A real pain if somebodies just cleaned them!

Going tender first - not great on any engine TBH. Does not matter how much you damp the coal down you end up wearing a film of dust most days unless it's raining. Slightly more weather protection on the 7F's but it's marginal. I don't find any of the cabs cold but most drivers seem to as they are always well wrapped up in the winter.
Cabs - not built for any sort of comfort on any of our fleet and until you get on something like a visiting Bulleid then you can notice a real difference in crew comfort. Very different to fire from Western and Midland types though.

 

I bet a loco with just weather boards would be popular this week!

 

Almost exactly 12 months ago but similar weather...

 

Always curious about a few bits & pieces, sorry if this is a slightly lengthy list

(1)How easy/difficult is it to learn to drive or fire a loco, can some be picked up quicker than others??? I'd imagined that something like a jinty would be hopefully be a fairly straightforward loco to learn on what with it being relatively small & i've had a look in the cab of 47324 at the east lancs & the controls/cab in general seemed simplicity itself

(2)How the hell do loco crews guess speed? Most locos i've seen obviously due to their age don't have speedos fitted, the drivers say it's guesswork, however on a few lines I.E. GCR/ELR & KWVR for examples 25mph is reached & exceeded in a few cases e.g max i've experienced was on the great central behind an 8F that was doing about 40. However though IIRC the GCR do have permission to run at that speed on normal trains as their track is in really good condition mainly due to it being used to train NR p-way staff.

(3)Do certain locos have different personalities? Weird question I know but few crews say that some can be very light footed dependant on the driver etc.

 

Certainly you can have 3 loco's of the same class and all 3 can behave differently for no apparent reason, when Tyseley had 4965, 4936 and 4953 at the same time apparently they all behaved a little different.

 

Being gauged to 2ft I can not comment on the standard gauge locos listed. Following on for the photo I posted, JACK LANE and STATFOLD are built to basically the same design, one has a cab fitted the other does not, the regulator handles are of different designs but other than that they are in principle identical. My personal preference was that JACK LANE was the better loco to drive of the two, however most of my fellow crew members over the weekend we had them seemed to prefer STATFOLD?

DOLL and GERTRUDE are the same Andrew Barclay design, they have been restored in different ways over the years, but in principle they are the same. I would rather fire DOLL but if I was driving I would choose GERTRUDE. Most out our crews are not a fan of GERTRUDE as she requires a smooth hand to drive well and demands the fireman's attention 100% of the time, if you like to watch the scenery pass by you will not do well on her! A couple of weeks ago I had a relatively inexperienced trainee fireperson on GERTRUDE, I was explaining to her how it was possible to keep the needle within a 10PSI range almost all of the time, only to be told by the driver it was not possible. Two round trips later under direct instruction she had forced the driver to eat his words...

 

(1) It takes a long time whatever the loco, there are no shortcuts. To be able to drive on most, if not all, heritage lines you have to be able to fire competently first. I can't speak for other lines but on the WSR that means a training period of at least a couple of years depending on your commitment and how often you turn up. After that it's again up to you how often you turn up but you need to go from passed cleaner to fireman to passed fireman before you can drive. Because most lines have more than one loco you will, of necessity, need to become a competent fireman on all the types on the line. I've been at it for 6 years or so and I'm still a passed cleaner but I'm not pushy and I like firing. Clive Groome says you can teach somebody how to drive a steam engine in about 10 days and I'd agree with that. He also says it takes a lifetime to learn how to fire well and I'd agree with that as well (see later).
(2) You either do it by "feel" or you count the seconds between mileposts (or both) or you use the GPS speedo if fitted. The speed limit of 25mph is usually a condition of operation under a light railway order which is what most heritage lines operate under. It's a potential disciplinary offence on the WSR to exceed the speed limit.
(3) Yes they do, even loco's from the same class can behave differently to each other. But then they can behave differently on different days, in different weather, with a different driver, depending on how many days since their last washout, the list is endless. Hence my comment in point (1). You can never learn enough about firing the loco and to put what Clive says differently, you are as good as your last firing turn.

 

Yep - 90% for the driver, 10% for the fireman. Any fool can let the pressure go up and down like a yo-yo, although some days it still seems to happen even if you are trying your best to avoid it!!!! Holding an engine within 10psi of the red line without blowing off takes some doing but it can be done. I love the days when it works that way.

 

And to fire properly a thorough knowledge of the route, gradients, stopping places etc is at least as important as knowledge & experience of the loco itself.

 

Good Lord what a thread. I expect its every engineman to his/her own loco. Whatever a Driver or Fireman is brought up on, they may well come to like it.

In terms of 'bad days' I had a by no means bad but fairly uncomfortable day with the Greyhound (T9 4-4-0) once. Just couldn't get on with it but then realised that was because we hadn't got the fire right. Got the fire right and she was on the button. Driving it was much more pleasant than firing it mind. On the other hand, remaining with elderly Southern, the Beattie Well Tank 30585 was an absolute pleasure, as was the SECR No323 "Bluebell". A beautiful pair of tank engines in every way.

Had a lovely day on Black 5 45379 as Fireman - loved it. Very workable machine. Likewise, did alot of driving and firing on 2884 Class No3803 which was an equally workable machine. I enjoyed driving the big 41' (4141) Prairie but can't say it was particuarly good in terms of vision in the foreward direction. Found the Small Prairies such as 5521 and 5542 much more pleasant. Had some good days with 3F Jinty's (or Standard Shunt's to the serious) but always found (eyes shut and waiting for the screams from the sidelines) the Great Western Pannier to be a more capable engine. I know they're Class 4 but they're not overly chunkier in size and yet I find them wholly workable machines, particularly with the under tank access for oiling up. Had a brilliant day on 9600 the other day which further instilled my views. Similar with the Austerity's. Been out on "Cumbria" a few times and found it very very pleasant. A nice sort of gentleman's engine.

For power, I can't beat a Castle. Thats my top card. Took 5043 up the yard a few times and found the power under the handle almost frightening. What a machine.

In terms of narrow gauge, I'd go with the Tongaat Sugar Bagnall "Isibutu" as the fave but as a good all rounder of workability you'd struggle to beat the Avonside "Marchlyn".

 

On a sort of related note, how does hot weather affect a loco? Do they noticeably run smoother/steam better as oil is more easily flowing, water temperature in tender is higher etc?

 

The main difference I've noticed is an increased propensity for fireman to try to get off the footplate for a breather at every stop ...

Tom

 

Can't say I've noticed except with tank engines. If the water in the tanks gets too hot the injectors can be more troublesome.

 

Some very in depth & fascinating replies guys, seems locos really do have their own unique personalities!

A guy i've met a few times who's a member of the loco crews at bury on the ELR has said that a jinty is a pretty simply loco to learn on. Not too powerful & with fairly decent visibility, however a 9F i'd reckon is quite tricky to drive particularly if you're stopped on a curved platform. Due to the length of the boiler & having a big tender & the smoke deflectors probs won't help visibility much.

 

Don't assume bigger is harder, it's true that there is a lot more to getting a big engine to move than you might think. But some small engines can be very idiosyncratic. The visibility question, it's true that the driver may have to rely a bit more on the fireman with long boiler engines. But it's teamwork on the footplate, sometimes without much in the way of unnecessary chat, but teamwork none the less.

 

If you are on a large LHD engine going forwards, the driver has very little visibility on a right-hand bend (and vice versa for a RHD engine going round a left hand bend). So the fireman has to keep a look out, which in turn means not firing at those points. Which in turn becomes something else as a fireman that you have to think ahead about, regulating your firing so that you are available to keep a look out where necessary. It's why line knowledge is so important.

Tom

 

Most Hunslet 'Austerity' tanks AKA J94's have the injectors below the cab floor, what is within the cab is the combined injector steam valve/ clack box although they are a tad high up to bang your knee on. Never had much trouble with the Double Handle Regulator either although the double handled steam brake could catch the fireman if not being attentive although it's generally too high up to cause a problem unless you're leaning in close to the backhead.