WSR S&D Spring Steam Gala, 5-6 and 10-13 March 2016

I think they got it right on this occasion, and got it wrong allowing the loco to be renamed at the GCR. When all is said and done, the loco is 92214, not 92220. It will still perform the same regardless of nameplates.

Tom

 

As one who knows little about locos, if you changed the number and name plates, could you still tell it wasn't ES?

Robin

 

I think you're missing the point Tom. This is supposed to be an S&D remembered event. Stations are being renamed, token exchange features used, head boards such as Pines Express displayed and engines given appropriate identity such as skp being renamed Templecombe. So what's the problem with having an evening star especially as a loco in the unique 9f appropriate livery is available? Reproducing that final Pines with ES I think would be a very fitting tribute to the closure of the line.

I just think it's highly petty and their time could be focused better else where especially with their recent record on things!


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It was discussed elsewhere at some length - copper capped chimney on the real Evening Star would be one obvious difference.

In any case, the harder it is to tell the difference, the less I am in favour of such re-numberings! As a museum in particular, I think the NRM has a certain duty to portray things as they were, not as people want them to be. Changing identities to a long-since scrapped sister engine is one thing, but I am somewhat uneasy about changing identities for existing engines. It would be quite easy for someone in say 50 or 100 years time to misinterpret a photo from this event and imagine that it meant there had been a period in steam for ES in the 2010s.

I suspect I am in a minority though...

Tom

 

Hmmmm

Now there's a possibility. Do you think the 'Picture Puzzle' thread will still be running then?

Robin

 

It looked quite authentic on the GCR last year, though the lamp brackets are a give-away (for enthusiasts at least).

 

Definitely Robin! Though I suspect the dartboard will be so full of holes, it'll be falling to bits!

 

Also worth reminding oursel

Don't get me started on NRM and authenticity etc.... although I'm quite happy to take this offline and discuss it on another thread to avoid ruining the discussion relating to the WSR Gala.

I do respect and understand your views and you do raise some valid points. I don't see how misinterpreting a photo is relevant though, this happens all the time with existing historical photos and official records will always settle any arguments. In any case, once my master shot is photo shopped with 92220 and Evening Star on the number plates and then put into circulation in 50 years time someone WILL say Evening Star was running in 2016

All I will say on the matter of NRM and authenticity is, They exercise this policy as and when they choose to.

 

Oh dear. Pram. Toys. Thrown... Have you ever stopped to think that there might have been an exclusivity clause that it would only run in this guise on the GCR, and that it has been suggested that 92214 will regain its '92214' identity after their forthcoming gala? The NRM is perfectly entitled to protect its interests in whichever way it sees fit. Ideally, if I held sway over such things, I wouldn't have granted permission in the first place, but then again, I'm not in possession of the full facts surrounding this. Equally, there may well have been a substantial donation to the museum on the back of this arrangement. In any case, we are where we are, and there are more important things to worry about at the moment.

 

In the absence of such a statement in place of "We wont allow it" this in itself is speculation.

I'd like to know what they can do to stop it though. I know there are rules about Thomas the tank etc because of copyright but is there anything that actually stops a loco owner from renaming/numbering their own property if they wanted to? Not that I'm suggesting anyone would do I just wondered what the actual law is on it so to speak.

 

I'd be perfectly happy for 92214 to run as 92214 - after all, it DID run on the S&D although its most well-publicised visit was in 1964, after the "Pines" was diverted. When it visited the Severn Valley over Christmas 2014, no one seemed to mind about its green livery either. I met someone who had travelled especially to photograph the 9F - it seemed to be a pretty popular visitor overall. I'm sure it will bne popular at the WSR gala. After all, at the 1996 gala there wasn't a 9F at all.

 

Indeed, although the 'tie-up' between the NRM and GCR may have had something to do with it.

However we are not talking about an engine owned by some private individual or group, the NRM are custodians not owners, that is you and me and the rest of the population. If ES was or likely to be a runner it would be more understandable. An appropriate free advert and acknowledgement would be better PR for the NRM and ES.

 

I will probably have to polish it whatever number it's carrying and it's a big old beast of a thing.
SEPT work really hard on these Gala's and with limited budgets in the 21st Century. It's all about the art of the possible as far as I can see.
Try to come along, go for a ride (or 3 ) on the trains and perhaps they'll get a bigger budget allocation next time around.
I know that makes me sound like a party pooper to some people but it's hard to escape economic reality in the 21st century.

 

I and my son will be there whatever number it is carrying and we acknowledge the tremendous efforts that go in to organising such events, especially this one being a commemorative remembering an event dear to hearts of many. Pity the NRM couldn't have seen it that way and contributed in a small way to enhance the event further. Whilst 92214 may have been an S&D performer it wouldn't have been green! so the assumption of many will be that it is ES anyway - with the wrong number!

Perhaps Anthony Coulls would care to elaborate on the NRM's position on such things? and how it is ok for one railway to do it and not another.

 

There's no argument from me in this regard; as I said, I'm not in command of the full facts surrounding the permissions given, so of course its speculation.

On a later point, I don't see any problem with exclusivity at all. What would happen if every 9F in operation was repainted and appeared as 92220, or every rebuilt light pacific was renumbered 34101 (as an arbitrary example)? And what's wrong with railways having a unique draw?

I'm sure many of us would relish the chance to be consulted on how the NRM's stewardship is undertaken. However, this won't happen unless there comes a time when every taxpayer is consulted on what should be done with items in the collection every time there is a proposal of this nature. As such, the present system of limited acquiescence is inevitable, and even quite suitable.

 

Another guest locomotive will be assuming a different identity during the West Somerset Railway's commemoration of the 50th Anniversary of the closure of the Somerset and Dorset Railway. It has been decided by the Special Events Planning Team that BR Standard 4MT 2-6-4T no 80072 run as classmate no 80043.

No 80043 was one of 4MTs which worked on the line between 1963 and closure in 1966, running the semi-fast and stopping services which remained after BR Western Region diverted the through trains to the former GWR route via Oxford and Reading. It was active on 6 March 1966, the day after the end of regular operations when it worked a farewell special train in company with LMS Stanier 8F 2-8-0 no 48706.

Discounted advanced price rover tickets for the 2016 Spring Steam Gala are on sale via www.west-somerset-railway.co.uk or 01643 704996.

(Taken from a press release by WSR Plc's Commercial Dept.)

Steve

 

All this fuss over 92214 not being able to run as 92220. There is a very easy solution. Surely with the owners permission she could be weathered so the dirt conviently covers the last two numbers on the cab sides. I have seen pictures of 92220 running in filthy condition without her nameplates. So 92214 wouldn't actually be running as Evening Star.

 

Couldn't care about renumbering, still great having a 9F there.

 

It'll be great to see 80043 once more .....although in the early sixties at Midsomer Norton I would probably have thought ''Oh no, 80043 yet again!!'' <BJ>