If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

9F Locomotives - Restrictions on Network Rail

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by A1X, Nov 4, 2015.

  1. johnnew

    johnnew Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2007
    Messages:
    655
    Likes Received:
    124
    Occupation:
    PRO The Stephenson Locomotive Soc.
    Location:
    Dorset, UK
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Not only are the logical comments about required chassis work a killer but given that if a rehashed 9F derivative goes on the mainline it is for pax work why bother with a further slow machine. What is the business case for getting the network approval for a 9F other than perhaps a few specific sections of line like Grosmont - Whitby without the problem point work but with a regular option for running the loco?

    Surely this summer has proven what is needed for the work available are more class 7 passenger engines with funds and resources better put to getting those back out on the network.

    Even if as a prospective builder, owner, operator you were going for a new build a second new A1 (a la Tornado) would make more sense, the design and therefore presumably patterns etc exist, it has mainline approval already and with staggered timing for boiler certs/overhauls give more or less full time coverage. 9Fs and the like are fantastic but surely the place for them in today's railway market is lines like the NYMR that need big load pullers at slow speed. However as the NYMR are not exactly rushing to restore the WD Vera Lynne perhaps even there the economics of running such a big engine in extra coal consumption, track wear etc., don't stack up when a Class 5 will do the job.

    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2015
  2. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2009
    Messages:
    4,416
    Likes Received:
    1,681
    Setting aside the logistical problems for a moment there probably wouldn't be a shortage of turns on the network for a 9F. Wheel diameter just gets them into 60mph limit.
    The Fellsman schedule, for example, was/is set to allow the 8F to haul it. Other routes in the north don't demand 75mph, as the use of 5s testifies. A 9F would be comfortably within its limits and able to do pretty much anything asked of it, including accelerating the train quickly, contrasting with a 5.
    Pity we are unlikely ever to know.
     
    johnnew likes this.
  3. pmh_74

    pmh_74 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    2,217
    Likes Received:
    1,456
    I can't help thinking that it would be cheaper and easier to upgrade the GCR or MHR to 50mph passenger running and just keep the 9Fs as they are and where they are...
     
  4. johnnew

    johnnew Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2007
    Messages:
    655
    Likes Received:
    124
    Occupation:
    PRO The Stephenson Locomotive Soc.
    Location:
    Dorset, UK
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Best post in this thread yet. Only query, would that need a reversion of the light railway status if such still exists?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  5. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Messages:
    2,987
    Likes Received:
    5,084
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Lecturer retired: Archivist of Stanier Mogul Fund
    Location:
    Wigan
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Probably, and I can't see the GCR's Pway people being too happy.
     
  6. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    25,493
    Likes Received:
    23,733
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Discussed ad nauseam on other threads. Very expensive to do, opens up all sorts of issues with the legislation, and then imposes significant extra costs for little return. In this case, all for the sake of being able to run one class faster because you can't do it on Network Rail.

    The sad reality is that the railway has moved on, and the 9Fs have been left behind so that we will never see them working where they were designed for. I'd personally prefer one of the Edwardian 4-4-0s to be allowed out mainline and to work at the pace they were capable of; the probability of that is equally low.
     
  7. baldric

    baldric Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2008
    Messages:
    312
    Likes Received:
    50
    I guess they have additional movement built in to their design if required.
     
  8. Jon Pegler

    Jon Pegler New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2014
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    30
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Lateral motion devices were a common fitment on many US locomotives with long wheelbases, whether rigid framed or articulated.
    These were manufactured by Alco and Franklin amongst others and involved spring centering of axleboxes, usually with spherical bearing side rods, although not always.
     
  9. Chris86

    Chris86 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2011
    Messages:
    1,329
    Likes Received:
    1,315
    Occupation:
    Safety, Technical and Offroad Driver Trainer
    Location:
    South Yorkshore
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Removed by me.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2015
  10. Sawdust

    Sawdust Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2015
    Messages:
    508
    Likes Received:
    884
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Not really as I understand it.

    Sawdust.
     
  11. Chris86

    Chris86 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2011
    Messages:
    1,329
    Likes Received:
    1,315
    Occupation:
    Safety, Technical and Offroad Driver Trainer
    Location:
    South Yorkshore
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Removed by me.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2015
  12. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    11,930
    Likes Received:
    10,088
    Occupation:
    Gentleman of leisure, nowadays
    Location:
    Near Leeds
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Sawdust is right. I'm afraid you're wrong, although you may have read it. I doubt the real reasons are in print, anywhere.
     
    Chris86 likes this.
  13. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    8,068
    Likes Received:
    5,165
     
  14. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    8,068
    Likes Received:
    5,165
    So let's be grateful that the same doesn't apply to steam in general.
     
    35B likes this.
  15. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    4,052
    Likes Received:
    4,665
    Occupation:
    Once computers, now part time writer I suppose.
    Location:
    SE England
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Mmm, If you'd told me, 50 years ago, that in 2015 I would regularly see Spitfires flying overhead and steam trains running on the main line within a few miles of my house I would have thought it ridiculous. These were things we thought were going almost forever, with maybe a handful of exceptions.
     
    LMS2968 likes this.
  16. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Messages:
    9,186
    Likes Received:
    7,226
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Thorn in my managers side
    Location:
    72
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    What about a Schools/D49/Midland Compound? City of Truro shows what a decent 4-4-0 can do
     
  17. andrewshimmin

    andrewshimmin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,761
    Likes Received:
    2,160
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    35B said an Edwardian 4-4-0. None of those you list are pre-WWI (in current form for the Compound).
    However, I have great news for both of you - a Victorian (just)/Edwardian 4-4-0 is relatively soon to return to the Irish mainline in the form of 131. Another inside cylinder 4-4-0 (later vintage but still Edwardian in essence) is on its way - and in glorious blue (171). And a compound 4-4-0 is on the mainline now (85). All can be sampled regularly for superb value ticket prices (even including your travel across the Irish sea) and warm hospitality.
    And I'm sure we (RPSI) would love some more support...
     
    MarkinDurham likes this.
  18. pete12000

    pete12000 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2006
    Messages:
    914
    Likes Received:
    327
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Waiting patiently and watching the RPSI website for 131 to be out on a railtour.....
     
  19. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    25,493
    Likes Received:
    23,733
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I am, every time I see steam come past the end of my street amongst the 91s.
     
  20. Chris86

    Chris86 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2011
    Messages:
    1,329
    Likes Received:
    1,315
    Occupation:
    Safety, Technical and Offroad Driver Trainer
    Location:
    South Yorkshore
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Have removed my post as it would appear the things I had read were incorrect.
    Regards
    Chris
     
    Steve likes this.

Share This Page