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9F Locomotives - Restrictions on Network Rail

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by A1X, Nov 4, 2015.

  1. John Petley

    John Petley Part of the furniture

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    Mods, this is a fascinating subject, but a chance remark of mine about the Hosking fleet has resulted in thread drift - from 45231 to the flangeless driving wheels on a 9F. How about splitting this off into a new thread?
     
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  2. iknow

    iknow New Member

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    With regard to 9F's on express passenger I can confirm that it definitely happened more than once , I can remember quite well standing on Hornsey station and seeing an express come under Ferme park flyover heading north with a 9F going at a fair rate of knots , I have since read that their use was stopped due to the high piston speed and subsequent wear on the piston rings .
     
  3. 99Z

    99Z Guest

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    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2015
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  4. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Done!
     
  5. huochemi

    huochemi Part of the furniture

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    ISTR, there was a story in Motor or something of that ilk many years ago, which was picked up by one of the railway mags at that time. A journo had been testing a car and was surprised to be overtaken by a big black steam loco. A grab shot out of the car window revealed it to have been a 9F. It may have been a Crosti and it may have been on the Nith Valley route, but my memory is a bit hazy on these details. It was probably in the second half of the 50s.
     
  6. NOTFORME_99

    NOTFORME_99 New Member

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    Also Evening Star on the Red Dragon.
     
  7. banburysaint

    banburysaint Member

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    9fs are also banned where axle counters are used for train detection
     
  8. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I thought that they were banned everywhere on the Network. Doesn't that automatically include where axle counters are?
     
  9. John Stewart

    John Stewart Part of the furniture

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    I might as well make a radical suggestion to celebrate my 1,000th post. Put flanges on the centre axle and connect the front one with a Krauss-Helmholtz truck. Perhaps we had better see how no. 134 behaves on the WHR first! ;)
     
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  10. johnnew

    johnnew Member

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    The 9Fs and point work issue goes a long way back as earlier posted by others.

    Can't give you the date but regarding speed know somewhere I have a copy edition of Railway Magazine reporting a ban by the WR of 9Fs on express passenger trains. IIRC the incident/quoted figure triggering the ban was one recorded doing 93mph through Southall. (Contemporary report in the traffic news part)

    I also recall reading that in addition to the piston speed others have mentioned another worry was also that with such high speeds unbalanced reciprocal forces could cause one to jump off the track. That of course isn't a new theory either, it is often quoted as a factor by doubters of City of Truro's recorded speed; it couldn't do 100mph without derailing. Well we know 9s can probably hit 90 (several reported instances) and none did come off. Was that just luck/drivers feeling from the loco's running that it was ok or flawed theory?


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    Last edited: Nov 13, 2015
  11. johnnew

    johnnew Member

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    Hasn't Evening Star been to Whitby at least once in the past or is my memory flawed? Very tight curves though on that line.


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  12. Smokestack Lightning

    Smokestack Lightning Member

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    Equates to 521 rpm. Mallard at 126mph would have been 529 rpm! Quite similar.

    Dave
     
  13. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    And neither, I submit, a wise strategy for day to day running and normal service trains...
     
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  14. 60525

    60525 Member

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  15. g8bvl

    g8bvl New Member

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    October 1987
     
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  16. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    Whitby has tight curves, but no raised checkrails!
     
  17. pmh_74

    pmh_74 Well-Known Member

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    Is that a fact? Knowing how axle counters work, I feel fairly sure a flangeless driving wheel would count ok. Has it simply not been tested? It would be a relatively simple matter to put an axle counter at, say, the GCR, and run 92214 through it numerous times and monitor the count.

    Doesn't solve the check rail issue of course.

    Incidentally, a 9F was once recorded at (IIRC) 89mph just south of Ruddington on the GCR.
     
  18. D6513

    D6513 New Member

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    I know a driver a local preserved railway wrote about an instance when he drove a 9f in the high 80's on a fitted van train. Apparently he had make an emergency brake application to stop at a signal!
    That sounds likely as an old friend of my said he once drove a 9f near there in the high 80's, I think he wrote about it in his book 'Saltley firing days'.
     
  19. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Woulden't you lose the grandfather rights steam has to many regulations on NR with such a radical modification ?
     
  20. John Stewart

    John Stewart Part of the furniture

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    All sold to America.
     
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