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Tyseley Single Wheeler.

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by j4141, Dec 2, 2010.

  1. andrewtoplis

    andrewtoplis Well-Known Member

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    Is this the ejector for a simple-acting vacuum brake? Uneducated guess...
     
  2. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Well, Cudworth's solution on the SER was even weirder - two doors side by side, a longitudinal water-filled partition and fire left and right hand sides of the firebox alternately, so that one was always burning bright and one had fresh coal. Possibly easier to fire, but probably even worse for differential expansion...

    Tom
     
  3. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Meant to comment on this earlier but forgot. I suspect that the apparent success of this design of firebox was simply down to the increased flame path allowing a longer combustion time along with additional secondary air and nothing to do with the coke 'consuming' the smoke. Successfully burning the smoke before the gases enter the tubes is fundamental and will always be more economical than a smoke emitting locomotive.
     
  4. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    The text accompanying the photo makes mention of it being fitted with condensing apparatus and I wonder if it is all to do with this? Another possibility is some sort of feedwater heater for a pump. I've no idea, really, though.....
     
  5. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    By "consume" I was really echoing the language of the time :)

    To modern eyes, combustion requires sufficient oxygen; thorough mixing of the fuel and oxygen; sufficient time for the reaction to occur, and enough heat to ignite the fuel. But very little of that was well understood in ca. 1850. The role of oxygen in combustion had only emerged about 50 years before, and the concept of chemical kinetics (i.e. how fast a reaction can occur, which governs how long the gases need to stay in the firebox before going into the tubes and cooling below the temperature that will support combustion) was still in the future. There was no mechanism to study turbulence, by which the air and volatiles are mixed. So it is probably not much surprise that engineers like Beattie and Cudworth were fishing around in the dark to find a way to burn coal without smoke, coming up with developments some of which worked and some of which didn't, but not really having coherent theory to help explain what might be leading to success and what was a red herring.

    Tom
     
  6. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    I don't think it is condensing gear - that specific loco didn't have it, though others in the class did.

    Checking back in Bradley, I think Andrew Toplis may be right in that it is connected with the simple vacuum brake - the photo I linked to appears there and reference is made in the picture to the loco having the simple vac brake (or "break", in SER-parlance….). There is also a photo of Stirling Q class 0-4-4T with similar apparatus (though interestingly, on the opposite side) also said to have the simple vac brake.

    Tom
     
  7. LesterBrown

    LesterBrown Member

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    Presumably a similar concept to McConnel's 'Patent' class which followed the Bloomers?

    Sent from my HTC One mini using Tapatalk
     
  8. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Possibly - the LNWR isn't really my field! What was McConnell's "Patent" like?

    Tom
     
  9. Enterprise

    Enterprise Part of the furniture

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    I can accept that Beattie and Cudworth were fishing in the dark but the relevant science was developing very rapidly in the mid 19th C. Just as today, there was a considerable lag between scientific theory and practical application. The gulf between artisans and professional engineers and scientists, an issue that has bedevilled British R&D arguably to the present day, was almost unbridgeable then.

    Addendum

    I couldn't remember the relevant dates when I posted the above. In fact I am wrong and the basic theory had only just begun to be developed in mid century. Boltzmann received his Ph.D. (kinetic theory) in 1866, Gibbs' important papers were published in the 1880s and Arrhenius' famous equation was published in 1889. Andre Chapelon was really the first steam locomotive engineer with sufficient scientific education to be able to use theoretical thermodynamics effectively. He graduated in 1921.
     
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  10. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    I think the importance of oxygen to combustion would have been well understood by any diligent locomotive engineer by around 1850 - Lavoisier and Priestley had done their critical work in the eighteenth century. Our victorian Locomotive Superintendent should also have been able to calculate the proper stoichiometry (i.e. what volume of air is needed to burn a given mass of coal); however, he almost certainly wouldn't have had any real possibility of actually measuring the mass-flow rate of air through the firebox, so even with the knowledge that a certain volume of air was needed, actually being able to see whether that volume was being delivered or not was probably beyond the capabilities of technology at that time. I also doubt that there was the necessary knowledge to join the dots between exhaust colour and efficiency - "consuming your own smoke" was a stricture about air quality, not about coal-dodging!

    What no engineer in around 1850 could have appreciated is, as you say, the notion of chemical kinetics, and therefore the importance of ensuring that the reaction between the fuel and the air actually has sufficient time to occur. Equally, the critical importance of good mixing may have been understood in principle, but any feel for what actually happened inside a firebox as the gases mixed could only have developed empirically.

    The thermodynamics of steam production is also an area that could only have been understood empirically at that time. It is interesting that Beattie at least (and probably some other designers) clearly understood that feedwater heating saved fuel, but there was no scientific theory to explain why: the thermodynamic benefits of running at higher pressure (so a smaller mass of steam for a given cylinder volume) or superheating (ditto) were all a long way in the future.

    The fact that someone like Dr Lardner could assert as late as the mid-1830s that a run-away vehicle in Box Tunnel would emerge at 120mph, completely ignoring the effect of wind resistance, shows just how sketchy scientific understanding was during the formative years of mainline railways!
    Tom
     
  11. Mencken

    Mencken New Member

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    It's curious that the title of this thread was "Tyseley Single Wheeler?? Is the Bloomer running?" from 2nd December 2010 - until today. Maybe the reference to the Bloomer was just too embarrassing to someone.

    McConnell's Patent class was his "improved" version of the original Bloomer design. The very successful Bloomer had been based closely on a design by Bury, Curtis & Kennedy, built in 1848. But McConnell's Patent had an enormous firebox, divided lengthwise with two separate grates and two fireholes side-by-side, and a combustion chamber. The underside of the boiler was given a large recess to clear the inside cranks; despite what has often been written about McConnell, he was very keen to achieve a low centre of gravity: hence the recess to give a lower boiler. The Patents were a failure, and they didn't last long.

    He also designed a firebox with three lengthwise water-filled partitions; the difficulty of manufacturing these partitions (each 6 inches wide and 7 inches apart) and thereafter keeping them in repair, seems not to have been given much thought.

    The Giffard injector on the Bloomers was very noticeable below the footplate as vertical pipework at the side of the firebox between the driving and trailing wheels, with a long delivery pipe to the front boiler ring; these injectors were gradually replaced by backhead injectors from 1872.

    Last week, in #159 above, Bob Meanley kindly mentioned my RCTS book on the LNWR Southern Division engines. It has 300 pages and came out in 2001, but if anyone's interested they should have a look at the RCTS website where it's on offer for £11.50. This isn't an advertisement - none of the money comes to me, nor ever did.

    Harry Jack.
     
  12. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    I think the title reflects the thread, a discussion about the single wheeler that's at Tyseley, we are all aware that at the moment it's not running. I cannot see how reference to 'Bloomer' can be embarrassing to anyone?
     
  13. Mencken

    Mencken New Member

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    I'm sure everyone at Tyseley is well aware the Bloomer isn't running, but let's not be too parochial about this; people visiting this website don't all live in Tyseley's backyard.

    World-wide, many will remember hearing about the 'Bloomer Project' of the 1980s which was well-advertised by leaflets, at exhibitions at Tyseley and Wolverton, by a detailed seven-part series of articles in the railway press, as well as in frequent news items, and mentions in books. They may just wonder whatever happened after all that publicity, and the question "is the Bloomer running?" in this thread's title might have provoked their curiosity - as it did mine.

    Had I come upon the simple title "Tyseley Single Wheeler" I'd probably have assumed it referred to some GWR project, and moved swiftly on.

    Harry.
     
  14. DJH

    DJH Member

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    Interesting discussion on early carriages. Some occasionally venture out. One quite early, though rebuilt is the Manchester Birmingham coach of 1844.

    http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=2560

    Good to hear the updates on what is on the to do list to get the bloomer running. As to places to run I'd be slightly biased being involved at a LNWR station.

    Duncan
     
  15. houghtonga

    houghtonga Member

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    MuzTrem is correct. Joan was supplied to Antigua with two vertical steam pumps (Mumford Duplex 3in x 2in x 3in) situated either side of the smokebox. The left hand pump was later replaced by a horizontal pump mounted on top of the side tank (in front and blocking the firemans window).
    During the rebuild it was decided that the horizontal pump was inconviently positioned and was in poor condition so it was replaced by an injector. In the mid 1970s the late Ralph Russell telephoned Barclays (the loco builder not the bank) and they still had injectors in stock. The Mumford on the drivers side was restored and was in use between 1977-1983 and it was removed and replaced with another injector. The issue was unrealiablity with the pump itself rather than operational difficulties for the crews adjusting to using a steam pump. We still have the pumps in store and they may reappear one day although probably only cosmetically.

    It has got to said that with four switch back summits (Sylfaen Summit, Coppice Lane and two summits in the "The Kink") the W&L is a water level critical line and regular travellers will know that we do make stops at Golfa and Dolyddyn to stop the surging and get a reliable reading before going over the top.

    Joan is also significantly over-boilered for its chassis. It is a Huxley class boiler on a lengthened Matary class chassis. Contarary to popular belief this was not done to burn Baggase as Joan and her three sisters for the Anglo-Pursian Oil Company (Iran) were built as oil burners. Kerr, Stuart had had some bitter experiance with an unsuccessful Matary oil conversion with Superior at Sittingbourne so opted for a bigger firebox to install some off-the-shelf American burners. During WW2 Joan ran on South American coal Briquettes and upto the mid 1950s when the railway was dieselised. After this the railway presumably stopped importing coal and there was a short period of burning Baggase (sugar-cane waste) untill 1960 - although free fuel Baggase was not favoured presumably due to the volume of material required, the increased workload on the fireman and risk of sparks. Even today with her new boiler and smaller firebox that locomotive is capable of producing more steam than the chassis can use even on our demanding route thanks to her new Lempor exhaust.

    Kind regards,
    Gareth
     
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  16. Mencken

    Mencken New Member

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    The M&BR coach at Manchester looks very nice, but the all-over blue livery might be a mistake. Black upper panels seem more likely at that early date, and the source for the belief that M&B carriages were painted blue is a bit vague.

    Harry.
     
  17. Stuart.b

    Stuart.b New Member

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    There's a lot of great threads on here about existing new builds or potential new builds. Good luck to all involved, we've got some great engines to look forward to.

    However, poor 'old' 670 seems to have slipped into the shadows. I know from my many visits to Birmingham in the 80s and 90s that the Bloomer had a great start.

    So, some questions:

    What work is required to complete 670?

    Are there any plans to complete this work?

    How does one get involved with this project?
     
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  18. oddsocks

    oddsocks Well-Known Member

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  19. Stuart.b

    Stuart.b New Member

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    Interesting stuff. I'd be up for helping to organise the fundraising for Tyseley to get it finished
     
  20. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Assuming that the situation remains as Bob Meanley explained, it does seem that the Tyseley team could finish the job, and would love to do so, if only that would not conflict with the essential matter of keeping enough cash coming in. They do a lot of work on the locos that VT operate, but they also do a lot of work that other loco owners pay for. So can we ask the specific questions.
    Roughly how much cash would be needed to complete the Bloomer?
    If someone sets up an appropriate scheme to bring in that cash, will Tyseley fit this job in with their other work?
     

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