The Great Britain VIII

As soon as I saw the announcement from WCRC that their services 'would be unaffected and operated by others' (or words to that effect) I took that to mean those services promoted directly by WCRC themselves and not those that they operate for third parties eg RTC, as I couldn't see how they could possibly resource these. And so it came to pass.

 

Sorry but I must absolutely disagree with you. You think that what has developed into a complete farce represents "a good package"? Really? People who thought they were going round Scotland in a private steam-hauled train with silver-service dining ending up on a grubby Scotrail class 156 dmu. if they venture north of Inverness. I just cannot understand that.

In answer to your last paragraph,actually I think Nigel Dobbing made a disastrous miscalculation in not cancelling the trip,and it will do RTC huge reputational damage. I don't like saying this and I have spent a fair amount of money with RTC on daytrips in the past. In many ways they have ended up with the worst of all worlds where they they have upset many high-spending customers but will have to give substantial refunds,or if they don't surely it will end up in court?

 

Point taken Al, but that was the question that Fred asked!

 

If the reports that half the trip has already bailed out are anywhere near accurate (and they come from friends of people on board, so no real reason to doubt them), then I think we have a pretty good idea of what those who have paid up think!

Remember that a key issue for RTC must have been the hotel bookings. I seem to recall a long defunct railtour company called Days Out, which really pushed back the frontiers of steam on the mainline but also ended up cancelling so many trips it became known as "Days In" by many! If I remember rightly, they met their end when a weekend trip with a couple of nights in hotel for about 400 to 500 people had to be cancelled but payment for the hotels couldn't be. I am sure that RTC potentially faced that situation when WCRC had their TAC suspended. Whether they could have got out of the hotel bookings at reasonable cost by cancelling at that point, I don't know but it would clearly have been a better chance than as the tour got nearer. The suspension notice says until 15th May but could perhaps be lifted sooner if the issues had been adequately addressed. For GBVIII to run as planned, that would have needed to be nearly 3 week sooner. Maybe RTC felt they had a realistic expectation that would happen, or that the cost of cancelling could get no worse if they took the gamble it could run. I suspect not even they really know at this point whether that gamble has paid off or not.

Steven

 

I'm not fawning - just looking at what's on offer ! Those participants who bailed probably wanted steam and have identified the failure of RTC to provide what was paid for - although I wonder if the T&Cs say no refund if the requisite traction (i.e. steam ) is replaced by alternatives (i.e. diesel or electric) - as being unacceptable. Those who are staying because of such enforced conditions as flights etc might be offered a refund but that is for those affected to negotiate with RTC direct although some might be prepared to accept the RTC offering and seek a rebate.

In simple terms : RTC offered a package but outside contractors failed to provide their part of the contract and RTC sought other contractors who were unable to cover all

Not necessarily; depending on the T&Cs the insurance company could say that whilst the railtour element was cancelled, the flights and accommodation were still available and so they would only pay for the GB8 expense - if that was covered. This is the loophole many package holiday-makers found when claiming for delayed flights with package holidays; if the delayed flight was part of the package then you get paid out but if the flight was en route as in joining a cruise package that begins abroad then you may get no payment - especially if the cruise runs to its advertised itinerary.

I recall that DRS had this problem during their cruise-trains when delays at York and locomotive failure combined to delay passengers beyond the cruise departure time from Southampton and IIRC DRS found it a cheaper option to hire a plane for passengers to join the cruise at the first port of call.

 

One passenger came from Kenya, his trip entirely planned on & for the tour. He abandoned the trip at Bristol on Day 2.

As far as I know he is not a forum member. We must therefore imagine how he feels, but what he said about both WCRC & RTC is not repeatable.

 

Steven

In the current issue of Steam Railway and with reference to cancelling the trip, Nigel Dobbing is quoted " Altogether we're exposed to about £ 100,000 - that's the worst case scenario, it could be less. We have sufficient fund put aside to pay this off"

Paul

 

Fred. Quit the blathering and speak to those passengers who are deeply disappointed by what has occurred over the past few days. People don't abandon a railtour that has cost them a great deal of money because they're having fun. My friends have described it as a nightmare. Other comments are not for publishing here.

 

My four friends do not do Internet forums so you won't hear from them direct but at present they are deeply unhappy with what has occurred and baled out at the end of day three. I'll let you know how they get on regarding compensation.

 

As mentioned the decent thing would have been for WCRC to cover that liability for RTC as soon as the most probable consequences of their suspension became foreseeable. Such an offer may of course have been privately made but not taken up.

 

I posted on here earlier in the week, but don't normally frequent this forum, but have been sent a pm by someone on another forum I frequent to present the information from the point of view of someone who was actually on board GB8

Right, my opinion here as someone on the tour who has done previous GB tours, this being my 5th out of the last 6.

I don't think it should ever have departed Victoria once the situation with WCRC arose, outright cancellation or postponement would be my view

To keep the punters hanging on until the last minute and then when I phoned RTC on the Fri before being told it's steam or cancelled, to then have a letter with tickets from them on the Sat confirming the same, with the tour then panning out as it has done didn't do RTC any favours and I'm an enthusiast.

Just think about those normals for whom this was maybe their first GB, a special tour for a special birthday or anniversary. They'll have memories of it, but for all the wrong reasons and probably will never do a charter again

The mood on the first day was excellent with steam out of Victoria and the excitement and anticipation of what the rest of the tour would hold

Day 2, diesel in morning was accepted as a.means to get from Penzance with the prospect of steam from Plymouth. As I've.mention elsewhere how it panned out on day 2, it was a complete waste of time the steam being there with 66122 towing it from Plymouth, waste of coal, water, resources etc

Day 3 we then knew would be diesel, not ideal, but still supposedly the prospect of steam in Scotland.

The fact that late on day 2 I found out from a friend booked on the Kyle bit as a day trip that it was either to be diesel or more likely cancelled, yet those on the tour knew nothing (they'd found out via an answer phone message mid afternoon)

The mood then and my mood wasn't good, effectively not being told the whole facts

Thankfully on day 3 morning, RTC came through and informed us of Kyle being cancelled and that NO steam would appear on the tour. They also advised that it might not be possible to take the charter stock north of Inverness or even Edinburgh.

It was then the proposal of refunds and passengers leaving the tour was tabled by RTC.

Day 3, whilst not happy that the tour would have no further steam and maybe curtailed re routing etc, I was at least pleased that we were finally being told the facts and not being treated like idiots holding on

Hence why I decided to bail out at Edinburgh as the tour offered me nothing I'd not done before or couldn't do in the future

I actually went so far as to thank the RTC representatives for the way they had dealt with the matter and issues on this day with transparency

Sadly this transparency and the decision to go /no go should have been taken further out, not just 2/3 days before the tour was due to depart Victoria

Day 4 for me was quite enjoyable and unforgettable, but probably not for all involved. A morning cruise on Windermere followed by a trip on Lakeside and Haverthwaite, both arranged off the hoof by RTC, so credit to them for this as it would have been easy for them to say you have the morning free and just board the train at Oxenholme

The day 4 loco wise was as follows, just for historical and factual accuracy as I've read various mis reports and quotes etc

ECS failed in Oxenholme loop upon arrival with 67018 at the helm
It then arrived into the station 47 late having been coaxed into life
All was not well with it as a max speed of 33mph in the 3 miles before it stopped again, then was restarted moved a further mile, before the driver accepted defeat and.it was only fit for a "skip"

Thankfully the train behind wasn't plastic, but loco hauled, in the form of 66551 on 4S42 Fiddlers Ferry to Hunterston empty coal

This banked us the 3.5 miles to Grayrigg loop

66109 meanwhile was being sent from Carlisle to provide assistance to haul us to Edinburgh

Departure from Grayrigg was 3 hrs 7mins late

Arrival into Edinburgh at 19:31 being 2 hrs 25 late

 

Hopefully this helps clarify things and provide the facts from onboard

The plan whilst in Scotland is as follows

Wasn't going to stick around for highland chieftain to Inverness today and back to Stirling on Tues with scotrail service trains being used for the fill in activities on sun and mon which were either, kyle, wick, strathspey or Keith and Dufftown, or whatever you fancied doing solo

Timings for Tues now in rtt
Stirling to grange
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U ... 5/advanced

And also for wed from grange to Victoria via copy pit and the joint linehttp://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U ... 6/advanced

 

I have every sympathy with you, however I would just challenge your statement re day 2 about the 66 towing 70000.

I was on the support crew with 70000 on day 1 & 2 , riding in our coach, and can assure you we weren't being towed, the Brit was doing its fair share.

 

It may well have been doing its fair share but from the train we couldn't tell that

Frankly though to have diesel piloting / working in tandem was a waste of steam. The purists and the timers certainly wouldn't treat it as a steam run

It would have been far better from my perspective to have left the Brit at Exeter the previous day and turned it at Taunton, thus allowing it to haul the train from Exeter to bristol with the diesel on the rear providing little or occasional assistance as required

 

For goodness sake. Surely you don't have to wait for feedback from those on the train (or not as dozens abandoned the tour en-route). Are you suggesting that paying just short of £2000 for a steam tour of a lifetime and getting what they got, would attract anything other than a scathing response? Yes, RTC will have done the best they can to placate the passengers who did not throw the towel in. But honestly, just put yourself in the shoes of the majority on the tour. You don't have to have been on the tour to appreciate how most will have felt. Just acknowledge the almost unanimous response from the posters on NP. It will regrettably go down as one of the worst, if not the very worst charters ever.

 

em·pa·thy
(ĕm′pə-thē)n.1. The ability to identify with or understand another's situation or feelings: Empathy is a distinctly human capability.

 

In Plenty of the videos with the shed on the front, the shed was powering pretty well!! Even on the flat!! Apparently bad coal??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

And that is exactly what happened, as my log shows. I have NEVER timed a steam loco this slowly for several miles - so the diesel set a new record low for me. Well done the driver, of course.
I stayed on after Bristol as RTC were making positive noises. No sooner were we on the Welsh Marches line than we were told that the thing had fallen completely apart. At least we knew what was what then and could decide when to jump off. The only reason I went to Edinburgh was that we had arranged a fifty years reunion of Ulster timers there (five were on train, one lives in Caledonia). Super hotel on Windermere, by the way!
Safely home now and preparing for some steam in "another country".