If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Drift from the 6201 thread

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Johnb, Mar 22, 2019.

  1. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    14,317
    Likes Received:
    16,391
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired, best job I've ever had
    Location:
    Buckinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Get Clan Line in decent nick!! It’s probably the best looked after engine on the network. Over 500 tons up Gomersall Bank from a standing start at Shalford or over Honiton is as good as the northern hills. Unfortunately as 28 is a DBC engine a swap won’t happen and it also won’t get its outings on the Torbays this year but hopefully BIL will.

    Seriously Mr Bulleid designed an excellent boiler and I remember reading in Bert Hooker’s book about the time that no 17 first tackled Shap on the locomotive exchanges in 1948 ( Bert was fireman). The inspector advised the driver to take a banker at Tebay but the decision was his. As the were speeding down through Penrith Alec Swain, the driver, turned to him and said, ‘where’s this Shap place you’ve all been on about?’
     
    NSWGR 3827, Dag Bonnedal, jnc and 4 others like this.
  2. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    15,328
    Likes Received:
    11,666
    Occupation:
    Nosy aren’t you?
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Didn't the LMR want to take on the Merchant Navies in the mid/late 1960's for their top link motive power? As we are digressing though!
     
  3. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    14,317
    Likes Received:
    16,391
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired, best job I've ever had
    Location:
    Buckinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I believe there was some thought to transferring Bulleids to the LM to replace Duchesses but I think that was after they had been made redundant by Kent Coast electrification around 1960.
     
  4. 60017

    60017 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2008
    Messages:
    9,002
    Likes Received:
    7,891
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired from corporate slavery :o)
    Location:
    Fylde Coast
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Why on earth would they have wanted to do that? The Princess Coronations were on top of their job until they were withdrawn. Bullieds might have had a bigger water capacity, but without scoops, they couldn't have covered quite a few diagrams?
     
    andrewshimmin likes this.
  5. Victor

    Victor Nat Pres stalwart Friend

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    13,773
    Likes Received:
    7,941
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    DEWSBURY West Yorkshire
    Aye, cascade the old worn out stuff to the carrot crunchers oop north:rolleyes:. Nowt changes, it's still happening.
    Well we've got our own decent stable now thank you very much........a few Jubilees, a MN, a BIG red machine, Flying Scotsman (yes, Mr Riley is in charge), a very nice 8F, Black 5's ?? oh we've got them, and various others, we're managing quite well thank you..........:p............;)

    If you want to BORROW any of 'em...................show us the colour of your money.:D
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
    andrewshimmin, Davo, RalphW and 2 others like this.
  6. 60017

    60017 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2008
    Messages:
    9,002
    Likes Received:
    7,891
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired from corporate slavery :o)
    Location:
    Fylde Coast
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    What do you mean 'we've' ???????? All the loco's in your list are currently based in Lancashire, so keep your Yorkie mits off! :p;)
     
  7. Victor

    Victor Nat Pres stalwart Friend

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    13,773
    Likes Received:
    7,941
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    DEWSBURY West Yorkshire
    John, do shut up, we've got to join forces, to unite against the southern 'metropolitan elite'
    And I like lancastrians..............:eek::Muted:

    Anyway, it's beer o'clock................I'm off for my pint.
     
  8. 60017

    60017 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2008
    Messages:
    9,002
    Likes Received:
    7,891
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired from corporate slavery :o)
    Location:
    Fylde Coast
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    OK! :(;)
     
    Victor likes this.
  9. 46223

    46223 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2011
    Messages:
    6,376
    Likes Received:
    5,750
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lancs
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Wasn't it the other way round? There was a scheme around 1963/4 to transfer the remaining Duchesses to the southern as there was little work left for them on the LM. A couple of things scuppered it, lack of water troughs to replenish the 4000 gallon tenders, less than the MNs, and clearance issues around Southampton (I think).
     
    Britfoamer, green five, 26D_M and 3 others like this.
  10. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Messages:
    2,987
    Likes Received:
    5,084
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Lecturer retired: Archivist of Stanier Mogul Fund
    Location:
    Wigan
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Yes, I remember that, although why the SR would need more Class 8P Pacifics was less than clear.
     
    andrewshimmin likes this.
  11. John Petley

    John Petley Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2007
    Messages:
    2,849
    Likes Received:
    2,362
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Researcher/writer and composer of classical music
    Location:
    Between LBSCR 221 and LBSCR 227
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I thought there was some issue with Battledown Flyover as well, although 6233 has gone over it in Preservation.
     
  12. sgthompson

    sgthompson Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,861
    Likes Received:
    9,238
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Tobacco manufacturing
    Location:
    Kendal
    Don’t forget the noise machine 46115 due back soon an all :)
     
    Victor likes this.
  13. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    14,317
    Likes Received:
    16,391
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired, best job I've ever had
    Location:
    Buckinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I’m not sure but there were a few odd ideas around at the time, perhaps being older the accountants could justify writing off the Duchesses. The one that’s always puzzled me is, with 110 light Pacifics to find work for, why the powers that be thought it was s good idea to inflict a batch of much inferior Clans on the SR. In both cases common sense eventually prevailed.
     
  14. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    14,317
    Likes Received:
    16,391
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired, best job I've ever had
    Location:
    Buckinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I think both ideas were put forward at different times
     
  15. MuzTrem

    MuzTrem Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2011
    Messages:
    937
    Likes Received:
    1,225
    In later years, David Ward wrote that the he thought the LMR was under-supplied with class 8 motive power, and one can see his point. The LMR had 50 Princess Royals and Princess Coronations, against 84 A1s and A4s on the ER. In fact I am sure I have read that a handful of A1s were briefly transferred to one of the Glasgow sheds for working the northern end of the WCML, but for some reason they were eventually moved back to the ER. In Ward's view BR made a strange decision in building the Britannias - he argued that more Class 8s would have been better.

    At the same time, it was well known that the SR was over-supplied with class 7 Pacifics, and in the early days of nationalisation serious consideration was given to transferring 15 of them to the ER for use on the GE section, which would have obviated the need to build some of the Britannias. For some reason it didn't happen in the end - I can't remember why now.

    So with hindsight, perhaps there might have been some sense in not building the Britannias, and instead transferring a batch of MNs to the WCML, and distributing some of the light Pacifics around the ER and the LMR? Smaller motive power could then have been supplied to the SR to fill the gap; a larger batch of Clans might then have been built, or perhaps the old Urie King Arthurs and Drummond Paddleboats might have been given a life-extension (which would have been fine, since they only needed to be a stopgap until electrification). Even the Scottish region had a batch of relatively modern, but under-utilised, D11/2 4-4-0s which could have been given a new lease of life.

    Of course, returning to reality, by the time of the Kent Coast electrification diesels were already coming on stream so it would have been too late for such transfers to be of much help.

    Certainly it is fascinating to think about the different ways BR might have deployed its resources if the regions had been more ready to transfer their locos between each other. It would have made life very interesting for the spotters, although perhaps a little challenging for crews who were not accustomed to 'foreign' engines!
     
    Bluenosejohn, 26D_M and sgthompson like this.
  16. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Messages:
    2,987
    Likes Received:
    5,084
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Lecturer retired: Archivist of Stanier Mogul Fund
    Location:
    Wigan
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    The main reason why the SR Pacifics were declined by the GE Section, and possibly the LMR too, was that in a time of difficulties in recruiting shed staff, the maintenance work and inaccessibility of Bulleid's masterpieces would have presented serious problems. One of the light Pacifics was sent to the GE on trial, and returned - very quickly - with thanks.

    The shortage of Class 8P power on the LMR was very real and lead to Scots having to cover much of the work, and the sight of a 4-6-0 with sixteen and seventeen bogies hanging on the drawbar was far from uncommon. So 5XP Jubilees were therefore expected to fill that gap, and the loss of these Class 6Ps was covered by Black Fives, and however good they were, they were not express engines. J.W.P. Rowledge opined them as "... one of the leading locomotive causes of the chronic unpunctuality of the LMSR Western and Midland Divisions…’*

    *Rowledge, J.W.P and Reed, Brian The Stanier 4-6-0s of the LMS (1977) David & Charles Ltd, Newton Abbot ISBN 0-7153-7385-4
     
  17. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    15,328
    Likes Received:
    11,666
    Occupation:
    Nosy aren’t you?
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Could you imagine the Stanier 4-8-2? And the cascades that could have meant ? Where would have that left something like the Jubilee's?
     
  18. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Messages:
    3,610
    Likes Received:
    1,438
    Occupation:
    Print Estimator/ Repository of Useless Informatio.
    Location:
    Bingley W.Yorks.
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Ahead of the Patriots in the pecking order... and later ahead of the Clans perhaps
     
  19. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    8,068
    Likes Received:
    5,165
    I would love to see one. However, the last Pacifics already had 50 square foot grates. Anything larger would have needed a mechanical stoker, with some loss of overall thermal efficiency. What would have been the benefit to operations? A bit faster up Shap and Beattock?
     
    Jamessquared likes this.
  20. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Messages:
    2,987
    Likes Received:
    5,084
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Lecturer retired: Archivist of Stanier Mogul Fund
    Location:
    Wigan
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I think there was one planned, along with a 4-6-4 option, with a 70 sq ft grate and mechanical stoker.
     

Share This Page