Kent & East Sussex Railway

You said it.

 

The bottom line is that the K&ESR is in an unusual position for a project which bought its first locos direct from BR. The Terriers are great and (as with the Bluebell and the IoWSR) still - and will - have their place on the railway, although not as motive power for the five-car sets that currently form the main steam-hauled set. The shunting locos which have been an essential part of the line for over 50 years are far from ideal for what will soon be a 28-mile round trip. As @Fireline has pointed out, the Austerities don't hammer the track as much as the USA tanks, but they were not designed for working passenger trains, especially over such a long distance.

The ideal loco for the K&ESR main set in the absence of Hecate would probably be something like an ex-LB&SCR E3 or E6 tank - a small-wheeled version of the E4. These locos had good adhesion and only one set of carrying wheels. The more non-powered axles you have, the more likelihood of slipping - no mean consideration given the gradient from Rolvenden to Tenterden. These classes would also be very much in the K&ESR tradition of acquiring second-hand locos from the Southern Railway/Region.

Unfortunately, these locos have all gone to scrap and an appeal to build a replica is unlikely to generate much support, especially given the survival of Birch Grove at the Bluebell. The K&ESR has therefore had to get hold of whatever suitable locos are available - and this has meant having to "go Great Western". Purists and Swindon-haters may not be too keen, but Joe Public isn't going to be bothered and indeed, not all of us who live in the South East of England are allergic to copper-caps - indeed, I'm really looking forward to 4253's return to steam. The restoration team has beavered away on what was a pretty rough engine and, judging by the website, seem to be doing a very good job.

 

I mean a re-gauged KA would look mighty fine trundling accross the weald, but no... no issue with firebox size, mind...

Would a tender conversion of an austerity be enough of an improvement to make up for the heritage loss? Copy one of the various bodged-on pony trucks that were done with overweight 0-6-0s?

This sort of thing. I think there is an L&Y one too?
https://www.steamtrainsireland.com/rpsi-collection/6/no461

Or, copy the GE and just uncouple the front wheels for a 2-4-0

I think running whatever you can find is infinitely more col stephens than worrying about "authenticity" from back in the day.

Especially when you have traffic levels that would make him need a lie down, and make more profit than most of his lines did.

When you think about it, the most col Stephens vehicle in existence would be a pacer.
[Edit: link to the mogul conversion I was thinking of. NB the preserved one was amended on the drawing board, but earlier ones weren't.
Further edit going a bit more exciting]

 

A Ford KA would have some historical relevance........

Andrew

 

Well, if you want a Ford...
https://www.thedrive.com/news/ford-transit-van-on-rails-is-basically-a-stick-shift-diesel-locomotive

I was thinking of something a touch more antipodean
https://steaminc.org.nz/our-rail-fleet/steam-locomotives/ka945/

 

Never mind the heritage loss. The loss of having the weight of the water over the driving wheels would render it less useful. Not saying it couldn't do the job, but it wouldn't be an improvement.

 

Apologies for the edits of the above, but it's the only way for me to make a 'sensible' brief comment on this part of the K&SER thread.

John, I'm only allegic to copper-caps when they are running off the old WR - like yesterday at the Bluebell when 34059 was rostered (fully accepting that anything on any loco roster is always subject to change at short/zero notice) - but replaced by an interloper.

And re the SECR 65 post - or in my speak 31065 - very sad to see 80100 rotting away at the Bluebell when IMHO it could surely be planned to be used to shoulder a lot of the K&ESR work. If it hasn't yet gone beyond the point of no return for overhaul.

Which leaves my only K&SER interest a Terrier on a short train of Mk1s . . . . . . . .

Such is having such a dreadfully narrow heritage focus as mine.

Bryan

 

Given how much it has cost to do restorations of locos such as 4110 and 4150 recently completed, I envisage a restoration of 80100 getting little-to-no change from £1million at the very least. In some ways, it does tell a story by showing how many locos looked when they left the scrapyards - something I'm sure was mooted as a display plan for the shed at Sheffield Park.

Getting back to the KESR, it has been stressed the railway is committed to having at least one Terrier in service at any time, and it has been reported recently that progress is finally happening regarding new rods for Poplar with a view to having that back early next year. A recent interview in Heritage Railway mag with some of the team at the KESR said there will always be a need for the smaller locos on the vintage trains, so while the likes of the GWR ones are coming to handle the heaviest of services, Terriers, Charwelton, Hastings et all will continue to find use on the railway because their value is both recognised and appreciated.

 

Whether something like 461 is appropriate for the KESR could be debated endlessly, and I have no opinion, but it is a fine looking loco.

 

Jon. With respect your statement "(locomotive No) 4253 has cost something in the region of £300k" is way out. Perhaps you should speak to the 4253 owning group.

 

I dare say there'll be a couple on the market at the end of this financial year. One black, one green.

 

Just two problems - the obvious one, and the fact that it is most definitely not for sale!

 

Tom, it was tongue-in-cheek and was not a serious proposal. If you consider the number of steam locos that the UK has built in the past 200 years and sent around the world, and the number which have come back, you would know it would not happen; the reason for that is that most UK railway enthusiasts, for some reason, don't see them at the same level as, say, a Spam can or a Black 5. Things might have been different if we had either a fully working metre / 3ft 6in gauge railway somewhere within the UK that was a tourist railway.

 

And the second is that it is the wrong Gauge

 

I don't think anyone was suggesting trying to acquire the Irish mogul. I understood the suggestion to be rebuilding an 0-6-0 of some sort as a mogul, rather as the Irish one was, to make it a bit more suitable for many miles at 25 mph. That is a lot less silly than some suggestions.

 

Based on what is in there now, the most likely would be Raveningham Hall. However, Halls are very wide, and probably a bit too much engine for us, too.

 

That would be the obvious one I mentioned Colin....

 

That was indeed the suggestion.
Point being that Austerities are hard on the track and not suited to 25mph passenger trains, so what previous ideas have been tried. None of the Great Britain ones survive.

Of course the northern lines committee did re-gauge a jinty the other way, so how hard could it be...?

 

We're going off topic, but I still have my doubts. In general, enthusiasts like what they knew, with a bias towards the large and charismatic. So locos exported to operate on foreign railways that had no direct main line comparators are always going to be playing catch-up. However unfair and unreasonable that is

 

Exactly! But obviously beyond the comprehension of some.