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VOLUNTEER TRAINING

Discussion in 'Railway Operations M.I.C' started by lynbarn, Apr 22, 2008.

  1. sleepermonster

    sleepermonster Member

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    Getting back to a previous theme on this topic, what training is there for directors, what code of conduct is there for them to comply with? Where do you point and say, this is good practice and this is what you should be doing?

    Voluntary organisations do get little feuds and cliques from time to time, mostly they stay within bounds and it is a management function to keep them under control. I think if i were looking at a fresh preservation scheme, I'd want to know what the checks and balances were to protect the ordinary volunteers from arbitrary behaviour.

    For a start I'd be very wary of any scheme with a managing director not subject to either re-election by the shareholders or a maximum term of office.

    Tim
     
  2. Engineer

    Engineer New Member

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    all very interesting but what happens if someone has a serious accident, and after all the investigations the management was found to have failed to undertake basic induction training, after all this is the norm in the building industry so why not on preserved railways, surely it dosent take long for an induction, take particulars sign a piece of paper then there is a record for all to see it may not be the best but shows that management knows what they are about
    Some railways do this but how many don't?
    Engineer
     
  3. 60017

    60017 Part of the furniture Friend

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    Wise words - particularly in the light of H & S Act's 'vicarious liability' and more recently The corporate Manslaughter Act.
     
  4. watcher

    watcher New Member

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    This is why we have to be strict on things like training,record keeping and rules.The days of turn up and give it a go are unfortunately long gone.
     
  5. Fraser

    Fraser New Member

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    Part 4 of the ROGS safety regulations 2004, specifies an 'assessor' as ''any person who is competent to make an impartial and objective assessment of another person's competence or fitness to carry out safety critical work, and related expressions shall be construed accordingly''. As with any regulations such as these, they are left open to interpretation and hence, can in many respects fit a number of criteria in relation to persons acting as inspectors. The criteria to which the persons undertaking safety critical work are assessed will very much depend upon the nature of the work in which they are undertaking, and therefore changes from role to role.

    In response to your further question 'what should be the minimum age for a cleaner to start training as an operational fireman on public service trains?' The answer very much depends upon what a cleaner is expected to do. If a cleaner is expected to couple and uncouple vehicles, change points and so on, then this is regarded as safety critical work in which 18 seems to be the age in which people are generally deemed fit to undertake such work, though ROGS do not specifically specify an age. If however, the cleaner is under supervision by a 'competent person' whilst carrying out their duties, then I see no reason for someone under the age of 18, to not be able to undertake safety critical duties. I personally feel, that 16 is a good age for someone to begin as a cleaner on a preservation railway, I myself starting at this age.

    If you wish to find out more on Safety Critical Work then I recommend Section 4 of the ROGS regulations.

    Best Wishes,

    Fraser
     
  6. paullad1984

    paullad1984 Member

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    Having volunteered on a few lines ive seen varying levels of training and assesment, having been passed out to guard at a large railway, when i started volunteering at one of the new generation lines, doing the same job, my training and examination were crammed into one round trip. does this make me any less competant, or does it reflect upon the quality of the training i had previously recived?
     
  7. Woodster21

    Woodster21 Member

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    There is still funding available to deliver NVQ programmes to volunteers as well as employees of a railway - the funding is called Train to Gain. Train to Gain is a government scheme to ensure that the workforce is up to a minimum of NVQ Level 2, the programmes are fully funded (although their are some exceptions). If anyone is interested they should move fast as with a potential change of government there is no guarantee that the funding will be available post May 7th. The scheme is extensively used in the construction sector to fund NVQ Level 2 programmes. The Embsay Railway has used this funding to train / assess their volunteers
     
  8. Seagull

    Seagull Member

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    It's interesting that since we on the K&ESR Operating Dept introduced proper induction procedures the number of volunteers has risen rapidly. We now have almost 70 loco cleaners for example. Just giving someone an oily rag and leaving them to it is not enough, people seem to actually like coming into an organisation that has structured training and makes it clear that new volunteers are valued. New trainees also get a logbook so they can chart their progress and know exactly what is expected of them to qualify in a grade.
     
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  9. Chris86

    Chris86 Member

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    Its certainly an interesting debate. I have looked into volunteering at a handful of sites but have been put off by the attitudes of staff who were there (Prime example at a site which will remain nameless, turned up with my fiance, and enquired about volunteering and was told 'you can do whatever you like as long as you bring 'er with you'- you can probably imagine how this went down with my fiance).

    However, at the Lakeside and Haverthwaite Railway, I was welcomed and shown around by one of the staff, before being allowed to crack on helping with jobs under supervision- before being allowed to do odd's and ends on my own. Wish I lived closer to the L&HR as the guys there are great- I was lucky enough to spend a handful of afternoons on the footplate too!
    I am looking into heading up to the Middleton Railway, I visited earlier in the year and am keen to get involved- unfortunately work commitments at the moment make this difficult.

    Given the nature of the work done at preserved railways, some training is definitely necessary- lets not forget that much of the environment should be considered as high risk! I feel the nature of the training ought to be a mixture of chalk-and-talk, practical 'training scenarios' and in my eyes there is still absolutely no substitute for being 'taken under the wing' and shown the ropes in an informal way by experienced people in the field. Its really important to remember that everyone learns in different ways, and as mentioned above not everyone will be able to achieve what they seek- sometimes these are the most difficult cases to deal with.

    Its very easy to turn training into a paper chasing exercise with little or no benefit to the trainees or those attempting to deliver it. As long as the basic principles of training are stuck to then any program can be a success. Unfortunately delivering some of the training courses that I have to- this is far to common!

    Chris
     
  10. annesi

    annesi New Member

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  11. Chris86

    Chris86 Member

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    As you have said, a comment made tongue in cheek with someone you know is a very different thing to a comment made to an early 20s, unknown female, potential volunteer.

    Luckily she is a Yorkshire lass who has been brought up all her life around her brother and his rugby mates, as such I did not need to say 'owt- I think she said all that was required!

    Chris

    Chris
     
  12. michaelh

    michaelh Well-Known Member

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    I think this is a common factor in volunteer organisations - individuals who have the time available are able to reach positions of authority which they would never have attained in paid employment and it goes to their head - particularly when they fell threatened by more skilled/knowledgeable people.
     
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  13. Robert Heath No.6

    Robert Heath No.6 Well-Known Member

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    Nail, head.
     
  14. Platelayer

    Platelayer Member

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    And this is based upon what research?

    Do you work at a heritage railway and have first hand experience of such a situation?
     
  15. michaelh

    michaelh Well-Known Member

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    Yes indeed
     
  16. Platelayer

    Platelayer Member

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    Go on then, roll out information that supports the original statement.
     
  17. michaelh

    michaelh Well-Known Member

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    I have no intention of putting that sort of personal information on a public forum - so don't bother asking again.
     
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  18. Snifter

    Snifter Active Member

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    Michaelh is absolutely correct. I have seen this first hand in two organisations hundreds of miles apart and the damage that results. There are some competent people running organisations and a fair few tin pot Napoleons who need to be removed.

    You do meet some interesting people at the mucky end of the spectrum. I was scraping oil and dust off the wheels yesterday with one chap who was a marine accident specialist and another who had met David Cameron in the week. Top blokes and no egos in evidence. There are also university lecturers and people running their own businesses who are often to be found caked in grime. Ask them if they want to do more and the answer is frequently "no" for the reasons mentioned.
     
  19. GWR Man.

    GWR Man. Well-Known Member

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    You mean they want to do jobs that are stress free after their day job, where they can let their hair down and have good fun helping out.
     
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  20. nick813

    nick813 Active Member Loco Owner

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    Hello,
    Being involved every day with Flt/cherry picker/scissor lifts etc I do wonder if many staff/volunteers have had formal training. Some of the actions I have seen can only be described as reckless.
    Training if using Plant is a legal requirement.
    If you use plant and have not been formally trained then ,in my opinion, you are an idiot.


    Nick
     

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