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Trawsfynydd and Blaenau Ffestiniog Railway

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by WickhamofWare, Aug 21, 2009.

  1. SR.Keoghoe

    SR.Keoghoe New Member

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    I think it's too early to tell if this project is going to be a success but the proximity to the Ffestiniog railway is the major problem, most people would prefer to travel on Ffestiniog as it is not a standard gauge railway and goes to somewhere rather than an old nuclear plant. I doubt most locomotive and rolling stock owners would loan to the railway unless it has a covered carriage shed as the valleys would do a lot of damage to the rolling stock. I think the post above (post 40) is right it is one of those WIBN projects, but the volunteers seem dedicated and have done a lot of work. The class 08 showed they didn't have a lot of money or financial backing and support.
     
  2. Sawdust

    Sawdust Member

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    Some people would rather be big fish in a small pond than small fry in a big pond, a situation which generates most if not all W.I.B.N schemes.

    Sawdust.
    (I know my plaice.)
     
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  3. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Surely you cod have come up with something better than that? :)
     
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  4. Tim Light

    Tim Light Well-Known Member

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    Last time a bunch of upstarts tried to re-open a railway on the Ffestiniog's doorstep, the FR muscled in and took over. Maybe history will repeat itself.

    If not, the FR/WHR still has the potential to create a through route between Blaenau and Bangor, with a branch to Llanberis. That really would be a useful railway.
     
  5. Felix Holt

    Felix Holt Guest

    Another small point about the BFf&T (the official name is that way round, not the order this thread has). The group has adopted a Welsh version of their name that has a grammatical error in it. This is the heart of Welsh-speaking Wales, whose culture is under threat and where locals have, perhaps rightly in many instances, characterized the heritage railway scene as being run by blow-ins from across the border. So, what does this new group do? They have not one word of Welsh on their website, and produce a nice enamel badge with the Welsh name wrong!

    Now, I'm sure they will say they have Welsh-speakers in their group and that a Welsh-speaker provided the translation. But not all Welsh speakers have access to formal written Welsh, and just as in English you would not call a railway the 'London 'n' South Western', so in Welsh you need the correct 'mutation' in an official name.

    A friend of mine pointed this out via the online contact page on their website several days ago, and has not yet received a reply. I realize in the great scheme of things this may appear trivial to railway fans, but it is a sign perhaps of a somewhat lackadaisical approach to things?

    [For those who really want the detail, the name in Welsh should be 'Rheilffordd Blaenau Ffestiniog a Thrawsfynydd'.]
     
  6. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Easily done :)
     
  7. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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    that's easy for you to say :)
    doesn't appear trivial to me. If some interloper were to spell my home town Redding , I'd be aggrieved.
     
  8. Miff

    Miff Part of the furniture Friend

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    I think the Dragon was referring to Felix's own error.
     
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  9. Felix Holt

    Felix Holt Guest

    Err, no, Thrawsfynydd is correct in this case; Trawsfynydd is incorrect following the word for 'and'. That's the point.
     
  10. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Interesting; must ask my daughters Welsh teacher.
     
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  11. Meiriongwril

    Meiriongwril Member

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    Yes, Felix is quite right. The word for and ('a') is followed by the Aspirate Mutation (as are the words 'tri', 'tra', 'tua', ei' meaning "her", 'gyda', 'ni' and a few others). This mutation changes word initial 'p' to 'ph' (=ff), 't' to 'th', and 'c' to 'ch' (as in Scottish 'loch'). This is only one of three different mutation types and these changes are very characteristic of the Celtic languages as a whole.

    The best book on these mutations is 'Mutation in Welsh', published by Routledge. It's available on Abebooks: https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=20024250469&searchurl=sts=t&tn=Mutation+in+Welsh&sortby=17
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2017
  12. Tim Light

    Tim Light Well-Known Member

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    How is it pronounced?
     
  13. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Apologies @Felix Holt
    It even works on google translate.
     
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  14. Felix Holt

    Felix Holt Guest

    Wow - that's cool!!

    For pronunciation: 'th' is like English 'th' in 'thin'; 'dd' is like English 'th' in 'then' (try them out, they really are different: 'thin' is said without the vocal cords vibrating through the 'th' part; 'then' is said with the vocal cords vibrating throughout the entire word including the 'th' part). And yes, I am actually a professor of phonetics :) (reeelly)
     
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  15. John Stewart

    John Stewart Part of the furniture

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    Now we know, get your mutation right and the natives will welcome the scheme with open arms.:rolleyes:
     
  16. Felix Holt

    Felix Holt Guest

    I would have thought 'treat the local culture with respect and they will welcome you'.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 13, 2017
  17. John Stewart

    John Stewart Part of the furniture

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    That's my normal approach which I find has got me through Europe without ever having the "poor treatment of Brits" that some complain about. However, in this case I felt that the group promoting the scheme was getting a little too much stick when they had clearly tried to treat the local culture properly but had fallen down. Of course, had they put "Trawsfynydd" first they would not have had this difficulty.:)
     
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  18. Felix Holt

    Felix Holt Guest

    Apologies - the emoji was misleading....

    Yes, indeed - if the title was as per this thread then no mutations raise their heads!

    Maybe it was felt that Blaenau was a better known name - or did this ordering reflect an older name of the line, I wonder?
     
  19. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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    my point earlier that Miff missed

    I know better than to comment of Celtic spellings, total mystery to me, even after 30 years
     
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