If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Tornado Paddington/Penzance 29/05/17

Discussion in 'What's Going on' started by alastair, Nov 11, 2016.

  1. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    24,537
    Likes Received:
    7,375
    Occupation:
    Training moles
    Location:
    The back of beyond
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Whilst that may increase the number of passengers on each train, I can't imagine rail traffic will be as heavy as a bank holiday Monday in the 1950s. In fact, will GW be running any extra trains at all?
     
  2. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2015
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    10
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Swanage
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I was thinking more of engineering work than passenger volumes.
     
  3. 30567

    30567 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    965
    Likes Received:
    347
    All the works seem to be Bristol--Bath. Nothing showing on the NR site on the route itself.
     
  4. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    24,537
    Likes Received:
    7,375
    Occupation:
    Training moles
    Location:
    The back of beyond
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Fair enough but the planned works on the GW are in the Swindon area and 60163 is going via the Berks and Hants so hopefully a trouble free run.
     
  5. Where's Mazeppa?

    Where's Mazeppa? Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2013
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    163
    Gender:
    Male
    You might find the relevant "Planned Engineering" page of the GWR website helpful in this respect. The pdf covering the period Saturday 27th May to Friday 2nd June is available via the link below, and it would seem that the only section of entire route likely to be affected on that day is the Reading to Bedwyn section, where it states "All weekend, (specifically including Monday) trains between London Paddington/Reading and Newbury/Bedwyn will run to an amended timetable, with many trains departing EARLIER than usual from London Paddington, Bedwyn, Hungerford and Newbury". Presumably NR took all this into account when it devised the superb path that Tornado has been allocated on the 29th May.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 17, 2017
  6. Big Al

    Big Al Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    9,701
    Likes Received:
    5,727
    Location:
    Hampshire
    Nowadays I think that the TOC is responsible for proposing a path and NR 'just' validates or tweaks it. That said, the fact that it is as quick as it is is quite impressive.
     
    gricerdon likes this.
  7. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    24,537
    Likes Received:
    7,375
    Occupation:
    Training moles
    Location:
    The back of beyond
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I've booked the 15:59. No interest in Class 59 haulage so all being well I'll be home a lot earlier even if a little poorer. :)
     
  8. tromba

    tromba New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    41
    Knowing the people involved and the effort that goes into planning these things, the initial desired path would have been identified by Mr Bunker, GWR would have been consulted and any required re-platforming agreed (Newbury was one I believe), then DB would have supported it and NR validated it.

    It's all about cooperation.
     
    Bean-counter and RalphW like this.
  9. Big Al

    Big Al Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    9,701
    Likes Received:
    5,727
    Location:
    Hampshire
    Yes, that's what happens as I understand it as well. Of course the extra ingredient is the degree of confidence everyone involved in the process has that what is proposed will be delivered. One imagines that DBC and the A1ST sit quite high on that criterion.
     
  10. hatherton hall

    hatherton hall Active Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2007
    Messages:
    937
    Likes Received:
    279
    In 1961 the Paddington to Worcester and South Wales trains, were still steam hauled and those which did stop at Reading, were booked 40 minutes start to stop! This makes Tornado's schedule on a par with those services which is great. But before we get too carried away though, we must remember that even class 5 Modified Halls on the Worcester's were keeping and often bettering the 40 minute timings of the day and regularly with 11 coaches. I know from experience!
     
    Where's Mazeppa? likes this.
  11. gricerdon

    gricerdon Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2013
    Messages:
    1,021
    Likes Received:
    380
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    gricer
    Location:
    near to Wallers Ash
    And they have the influence to recover from problems i.e The Talisman
     
  12. Where's Mazeppa?

    Where's Mazeppa? Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2013
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    163
    Gender:
    Male
    I think that the acclamation accorded to Tornado's schedule is as much about the fact (and the relief) that it is a Fast Line path throughout from Paddington to Reading, which will make this schedule feasible. I don't doubt that Tornado can/ will improve on the 39 minute allowance provided that scheduled engineering work for the weekend doesn't present any obstacles on this section. Looking back at what Tornado achieved on its last-but-one day-time run out of Paddington - the Red Rose, in February 2016 - total running times (again, Fast Line throughout, I think - it was a Sunday) amounted to 41m 40s inclusive of deceleration to / acceleration from a Slough passenger stop, and with Load 13/ 505 tons. So, very do-able, and as ever, I wait with great interest to learn of the actual performance on the day.

    What make this post so fascinating for me is the comparisons which are drawn with practise and performance in the early 60's. I must confess that I didn't have any experience of the South Wales expresses in the late steam era, so I can only really comment about how things worked out with the Worcester/ Hereford services. All except the down Cathedrals Express (16.45 from Paddington) were on "Four Star" timings in the 1960/ 61 timetable. These were allowed only 38 minutes start to stop for the Paddington-Reading section. But in fact, only four of the services actually stopped at Reading in those days (09.15/ 12.45/ 18.45/ 21.45). Four star timings meant in practise a normally diagrammed maximum load for the usually-rostered Castle of 320 tons gross (Load 9), and Halls/ Modified Halls weren't quoted in this timing category, so presumably would have only normally appeared on the basis of late substitution. (As a matter of interest, Halls were allowed 39 minutes start-to-stop for 300 ton loads on Three Star timings on this section, or 40 minutes for two star timings with a 350 ton load (Load 10)). So compared with records of Castle performance on these services, runs featuring Modified Halls are a bit scarce.

    Consequently, and frustratingly, having trawled through the RPS database, I can only find four examples of start-stop runs in the decade to 1964 with Modified Halls - loaded variously 8/ 10/ 10/ 11 - that managed to beat a 40 minute time (and only one of which was sub-39 minutes) . Even so, this would have represented quite an impressive performance for a 5-MT rated locomotive. My own experiences on this route at that time were all with Castle haulage, and I wonder if it is possible to recall any other Modified Hall exploits from that era which would deserve this kind of recognition??
     
    Nick Gough likes this.
  13. Big Al

    Big Al Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    9,701
    Likes Received:
    5,727
    Location:
    Hampshire
    Looking ahead to Monday, we do have the weather to think about. Although the Met Office surface charts don't yet go into detail beyond Friday/Saturday, I'd be optimistic that the really hot stuff (29/30 deg) will be at the start of the weekend. I think there's a good chance that things may break down from the west on Sun/Mon although it has to be said that high pressure is fairly slow to shift. Here's hoping for a storm or two before 0803 on Monday. The last thing we want is a restriction on steam west of Exeter.
     
    alastair likes this.
  14. hatherton hall

    hatherton hall Active Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2007
    Messages:
    937
    Likes Received:
    279
    Might be touch and go with the weather. Problem is that there has been no rain falling in SW England this week and nothing forecast and although 30 degrees is not anticipated in Devon and Cornwall, it is going to be very warm, around 28 predicted,. Here is the potential problem. If we reach Sunday and the rains haven't arrived, there might be pressure on NR to do something about it, much to the disdain of the steam following. It's almost that rain dance moment again!
     
  15. Big Al

    Big Al Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    9,701
    Likes Received:
    5,727
    Location:
    Hampshire
    Some rain likely on Sat/Sun in the south west but not certain.
     
  16. gricerdon

    gricerdon Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2013
    Messages:
    1,021
    Likes Received:
    380
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    gricer
    Location:
    near to Wallers Ash
    Forecast now for storms tonight and Sunday night with rain on Monday
     
  17. 7P6F

    7P6F Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2009
    Messages:
    735
    Likes Received:
    259
    Gender:
    Male
    I would expect Tornado to have the Rolls Royce of spark arresters affixed. Not aware it has ignited anything it shouldn't have, or has it?
     
  18. Wayne

    Wayne New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2008
    Messages:
    131
    Likes Received:
    216
    Although the crew (Didcots Graham Ward and Dave Proctor) will enjoy the main line run to Reading, the 30mph restriction through Slough will put a dampner on it. Maybe.
     
  19. Big Al

    Big Al Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    9,701
    Likes Received:
    5,727
    Location:
    Hampshire
    And there I was thinking that we only had a problem at Pewsey and in the Plymouth area plus a bit in Cornwall. By the way, is there a crew change at Exeter?
     
  20. mouse

    mouse New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2012
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    todmorden
    If its a light train it will be easier to recover from restrictions. How many coaches?
    I'm looking forward to it.
     

Share This Page