The Remembrance Line- The campaign to save the Folkestone Harbour Branch

I think that, just before we write the obituary of the scheme, it might be worth contacting the group themselves. They clearly still believe that there is merit in what they are trying to achieve, and are still going. I know the chairman of the group, and I think he would be rather angry to see it considered as defunct.

 

Which scheme are you referring to - J50 or Remembrance Line?

Keith

 

My apologies. The Remembrance Line.

 

Perhaps a kind moderator could move the Remembrance Line posts to the thread for that proposal?

Thanks


Keith

 

Was it ever funct?

 

If the harbour company was interested in a ferry service to Boulongne then it may have have worked with a fast passenger only service linked in to HS1, In effect the Javelins working fast direct to Folkstone harbour with across platform access to the boat, it would have dovetailed into the housing development on the sea front, your own hi speed service direct from your door to london, but the harbour company was in reality not a harbour company, more a land owning redevelopment company. this would have given Dover more space for freight and cars, local foot traffic could have been transferred to Folkstone. and could have been a ace in the pack card in my view making the new housing highly desirable for anyone who may live in the south and commute to the french mainland, or to london,

 

Huh! Seems a bit of wimwam as a means of getting to the Channel Tunnel. As a "heritage railway" with a 1 in 30 descent leading directly to the briny there would always be the thought "when will the big splash happen" in the subconscious.

PH

 

I am reviving this thread to raise a question. The Patriot project (which is making excellent progress) would be a perfectly valid new build project without the "National Memorial" aspect, though that aspect does of course increase its appeal for (at least some of) those who support it with time or money. I have no problem with any of that, but I am puzzled as to why the superficially similar idea of preserving the Folkestone Harbour branch as the "Remembrance Line" attracted such criticism. What is the difference between using a war memorial aspect as part of the appeal of a new build locomotive project and using it as part of the appeal of a line preservation project?

N.B. This is an honest question because I would like to know. I am not trying to make a point of any kind.

 

I sense that some have a real problem with the project and will just throw any criticism they can at it!

Is it still a live project?

On one hand, it would preserve something and allow a restoration to 'original'/period appearance that doesn't survive in such form elsewhere - a harbour station, but making it a viable operation does seem 'challenging' perhaps!

Steven

 

Perhaps its down to the way something is sold to people rather than what is sold. The LMS Patriot Project has been "sold" very well (even to a GWR person like me!) and is a tangible, portable item, which will be able to appear at various locations (indeed, it has already been to the Warley MRC Show at the NEC and the National Memorial Arboretum). It's current and future costs are measurable, workable and within reach of a broad "fan base". (As far as such expensive beasts like steam locos can be.)

The Folkestone Project is a local one (albeit of national significance perhaps) and would need a huge amount of infrastructure investment to produce anything of railway heritage value. It could be done but would need a big investor and a complete re-launch with a USP. To some extent, I would cite the Sharpness Line as an example of a project re-launch which has turned around the fortunes of a heritage railway project (warning-early days yet I know) from being, in my opinion, a somewhat zany proposal into a sound project. At least, if the Group's website is anything to go by.

Interestingly, I was unaware until watching a BBC TV programme last night, that, during WWI, Folkestone was the HQ of the UK's military espionage network. A very interesting programme where, as is often the case, truth is stranger than fiction.

 

Unfortunately the station is so far gone and the corrosion so bad I think that once you strip away the modern additions to it you would have little or nothing left, except a very large bill for rebuilding. As for a running line, there is nothing at the junction end to see or do even if by some miracle permission was granted for a station.

Whilst a very large number of troops did pass through the station, there is nothing there that links the station to this mass movement.
A display as part of a redevelopment of the site showing the site in war days would not go amiss.
Also, I think that certain backers of the scheme also did themselves no favours with their talk of new builds.

 

I Was involved with this ill thought out scheme, to many dreamers, and local anti dehaan activists who were interested in only fighting a battle against him, it was badly let down from day one, the aims were unrealistic and instead of seeing what common ground there was, the then chairman was only interested in creating ill feeling, my own view point was that it could have only worked with a passenger ferry and with the branch being part of the national network, and linked into the hi speed service,
i actually got thrown out and banned from their web site because i asked questions about why did you not try to put forward ideas that may have found favour, but the damage was done the harbour company , would not show any interest, yet they owned the land the station stood on, and had powerfull friends, as i understand it the closure notice was published and the line placed permanently out of use, it could, have with some co operation, had been different, not as a railway, but as a museum, with some bits restored i happen to think that had the scheme approached Roger dehaan / Folkestone harbour company from day one, and gone for a museum complex ( Folkestones own musum was looking for new premisis) i think it could have been something, then the loonies took over, plans for a heritage railway on a 1 in 30 railway, with one mile of track, a mainline reg merchant navy and their own train, to london, hiring at former gat ex 73 and mk2's to operate a service , at this point i bailed out, then the idea for a park and ride using pary vehicles, in a very salt laden atmosphere, on a branch that is very steep, I did have some friends in this group, but some times some people have to wake up and smell the coffee.

 

Thanks for the responses. It seems that the objections were not to the memorial aspect itself but rather to attaching that aspect to inadequately thought out plans.

 

Indeed, it seemed like just another tagline added to garner interest and support without any real remembrance aspect to the line. After all there were many many places around the UK where troops left during the war - there was nothing significant about the use of this line.


Keith

 

The port was a major point of departure to the western front. I've seen figures of 10million departures quoted. Not that that adds IMHO to the appeal of the line in preservation terms.

 

Some items of redundant transport provision need to be allowed to die a decent death. The skids were under Folkestone Harbour from the time (during WW1) that better facilities were completed at Dover. And then along came the Channel Tunnel, with the changes entailed to cross-Channel services.

Time, surely, to let the Harbour line pass into decent memory and accept the land and other resources be used more usefully for the good of the local economy.

Robin

 

thats why i felt at the time that to turn the station and transit shed into a museum to show the history not just of the line and its use in ww1, but of folkestone generally would have most likily have got Roger dehaan and the harbour company on board, others like step short etc, also would have came on board and it would have given the area a much needed attraction, but to some it meant working with their own personal Satan ,so would never have got agreement, indeed the railway aspect could have been met by having a out of ticket p class already painted in ROD livery ( done my myself) and maybe the cavall van on display , in the station there could i think have been so much, but it came to nothing due to a very bitter person, who used the group in its early days as his personal vehicle to wage his war on what in his view Dehaan was doing to what he saw as his folkestone.

 

Wemyss Bay ?

Bob.