Talyllyn No. 1 at the start of the preservation era

Just been reading Michael Whitehouse's great new book 'Talyllyn Pioneers' and was looking at the picture of TR number 1 'Talyllyn' stored in a barn where the North (?) carriage shed now is at Pendre. Does anyone know what the rationale was for storing it there rather than leaving it in the shed? Was it to make room for the two ex-Corris locos?

On a similar tack, was the barn rail connected and when was Talyllyn put in there (I'm guessing when the enthusiasts took over). Did is stay there until being sent for rebuilding in the late 1950s? If anyone knows any of the answers to these questions (or has more pictures!), I'd love some answers!

 

No 1 had been in the works for some time when the TRPS started (not the loco shed). It was moved out to make room for work to be carried out on ex-Corris No 3. With the arrival of the two Corris locos there wasn't enough covered space for all of the locos. The loco shed could only take two then as the rear portion was the company-owned cottage. The internal wall was knocked down in the late 60's/early 70's to create a shed capable of taking four locos.

 

no1 was thought of as a basket case and kept for sentimental reasons only at that stage I think.

 

Thanks Talyllyn 1 (!) & Reading General for the answers. So was the barn rail connected or was the loco lifted off the track and stored without rails under it? Was it there from 1951 (?) until it was sent for rebuilding?

 

John, there is a photo, by H.C. Casserley, in Boyd's 'The Talyllyn Railway' dated 25th August 1948 which shows No.1 already to be in the works. Presumably it was there until it was moved into the barn after the arrival of the Corris locos. I've attached a scan from T.R. guide book circa 1960 which shows Talyllyn in the barn where it lay until removal for restoration in 1957. I'm sure the loco is on rails but it looks as if the rails may have been removed behind it.
Cheers,
Ray.

 

I'm fairly certain that the rails were already there. It would have been the east end of one of the sidings. I read somewhere (Boyd?) that grass from the line side was cut and transported on slate wagons to the barn, where it was kept as fodder for the company's horse. There has been a photo published showing a slate wagon with a large flat board on top, supporting a sizeable "hay stack".
The infant TRPS certainly wouldn't have the equipment to lift No 1 off the rails and into the barn. It remained there until going to Gibbons Bros in Brierley Hill for rebuilding - returning in 1958. The site of the barn is now occupied by the north carriage shed.

 

In 1951 John Bate states " at the time of my arrival, 'Sir Hayden' and 'Dolgoch' stood in the running shed, and 'Talyllyn' and 'Edward Thomas' in the workshop". ('The Chronicles of Pendre Sidings', p22). According to John Bate, Talyllyn was moved out of the workshop on 2nd June 1952 to give access to the workshop pit for the Corris locomotives (p.24), but not until John had repaired the point to the barn (and Talyllyn derailed on the sharp curve of same) was it moved to under the old hay barn where the north carriage shed is now.

The bulging firebox boiler plates showed it was not fit for re-use without extensive repair, which was well beyond the TR at the time.

Talyllyn had occupied the workshop road for some years prior to 1951 -probably since its last dodgy steam up in 1946 when it rescued Dolgoch after repair at Shrewsbury.

Talyllyn was carefully sheeted down under the barn in 1952 till transferred to Gibbons Bros in 1957. John Bate noted only the frames and wheels and some small fittings retained of the original after the Gibbons 'rebuild'...

A matter for some debate since amongst TR devotees.

Cheers,
Julian

 

I'm sure this was also covered in one of the Awdry books…

 

For some reason I cannot edit the above - the frames were the Bagnall replacements of circa 1900, which were altered in the mid 1980s for the rear radial truck. So all that remains of the original is the wheel centres and a few bits of brass work and other bits and the hand brake wheel.

Happy to be corrected on any of the above.

Cheers,
Julian

 

(duplicate post - computer problems)

 

Edit (ditto above)

 

Superb - thanks, Ray!

 

Thanks, Julian! Didn't buy a copy of the John Bate book when I had the chance which I now regret. I live in hope that they'll reprint it at some point...!

 

Apologies for the duplicate posts above - computer playing up. Glad the info was of interest. I remember a trip to Tywyn with Winston McCanna with the new drawings for Talyllyn's radial trailing wheel drawings in 1982 in his old Wolseley car. Happy days with Roy Smith driving No.1

Cheers,
Julian

 

It is rather interesting to note that although Pendre shed (and 'workshop') was very primative till the mid 1950s (unlike the Ffestiniog), many repairs were carried out at the much better equipped Bryn Eglwys Quarry workshops in pre WW2 period. Boyd alludes to this, but only provides one example. He never provides a proper assessment of this important aspect of the TR. I dont have a high opinion of Boyd's research, or his books (except for the pictures in the Wild Swan publication on the TR).

Cheers,
Julian

 

The original coupling and connecting rods were also retained but sadly were damaged beyond repair when it had a mechanical failure in 2014.

 

Thank you Masterbrew.

Was there anything else that survived the 1957/8 Gibbons 'rebuild'?

I know the valve gear was replaced later on in preservation, and there is an example of the original gear that is a museum exhibit. I think the chimney survived the 1957/8 Gibbons rebuild, and I think one of the builders plates is the original. Was the copper firebox was retained?

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but bearing in mind how much of the original loco was scrapped in 1957/8 the original loco could have been 'preserved' as a static exhibit.

Quite a bit more of 'Dolgoch' survives as original.

If anyone can provide a list of pre-preservation components that survive I would be very interested.

Cheers,
Julian

 

...got this...

 

...and this

 

Try Martin Fuller's Magnum Opus part 2 on TR locos when it comes out. My recollection is that it's the wheel centres, Bagnall frames, one buffer and some details as you say. In terms of "originality", No.3 was probably the most original latterly in terms of not having had frames, rods & cylinders replaced.

No.1's old firebox (c.1920s) of Low Moor iron and copper was replaced in the 90s and was kept, and a cylinder and the old tubeplate still lurks at Wharf or Pendre - I think it was all at Wharf last summer. There's a very revealing photo of No.1 at Gibbons in the late 50s where it almost looks as if the loco (or the boiler at least) is being cut up, but I can't recall where I saw it.