Sat 15th March, The Cumbrian Ranger.

Afraid its already been confirmed that the box will be on the back all day(except when its on the front!):

- The 47 will be on the back when "Bittern" is at the front - it will not be inside.

Presumably it will at least have to "take its weight" on Ais Gill, otherwise its the equivalent of maybe 3 extra coaches?

 

Not just that guys but the extra coal consumption will have a detrimental effect. Doubt they will be able to get back to Crewe without assistance. Don't think it's worth getting up before 4 am and spending at least as much as the tickets on service trains, lunch and of course beer. Great shame as this was going to be one of the best trains in the first half of the year, particularly as I don't think Bittern has ever been northbound over Shap in preservation.
Don't think this says a lot of NR as they must have accepted the train when it was proposed, and doesn't that have to be 12 weeks in advance of the date to ensure things like this don't happen?
Still sad that the final solution is hanging a box on the back, and there's no such thing as 'Taking it's own weight is there'?.
I guess more and more now we are going to have to get used to the fact that all 'Steam Hauled' Trains are just destination trains and as long as the trains get to and from the destination with a steam engine in the consist the criteria are met.

 

Hopefully there is no assistance on Saturday, as it will be a real disappointment for the enthusiasts on board. With possibly at least 11 on the hook including the dead weight of the diesel your looking at a 14 - 15 load and that's quite a haul for a A4, especially on a climb.

 

I'm afraid the 47 when have to be engine running when on the back, if using the usual TY01 rake which is Vac only, you can only shut down diesels when running in air brake mode.

VT just a victim of some daft gauging/engineering work in just about the worst possible place.

 

True David, but the solution is also the worst for the paying passengers as only the Carnforth - Carlisle section needs alternative haulage.

 

Don't write off the climb to Ais Gill, from a performance PoV. Remember The Pride Of Swindon? 5043 on the front, 47 idling on the back, 2000 hp sustained for large parts of the climb...? Bittern should be capable of matching and probably bettering that. As for coal consumption, it should be swings and roundabouts: yes, she'll use more than planned on the climb to Ais Gill, but she shouldn't use nearly so much wafting over Shap with just the support coach.

However, just as with The Pride Of Swindon, I guess the DL may need to assist on Wilpshire, if coal is getting a bit low, especially if they're checked approaching Whalley.

So far, we've all assumed that Bittern will follow the train from Carnforth to Crewe later. Now, this may be very wide of the mark, but I get the impression from some of the things Ben has written that 4464 may be banking over Shap. For example, the dispensation for Bittern to use Pl 3 mentions "detaching from" the train as well as attaching to it. Why would that be necessary if Bittern has following later and only attaching after turning? It would save a path, and reduce the risk of a delayed return. Possible? Yes. Likely...?

 

Uk Steam shows times for Bitterns separate move between Carnforth and Carlisle. (assuming you meant Carlisle, not Crewe)

 

Excuse me, read the previous postings. I bought two tickets on the train otherwise I would never have bothered posting anything about it other than perhaps to sympathise with the passengers. I've already spent almost £1000 with VT this year for this and subsequent trains.

 

I think VT and WCRC have moved heaven and earth to run this tour and the refund is fair when you consider the loss of steam mileage and that no criticism can reasonably be leveled at them.

However the problem still remains is that yet again, due to the antics of network rail, a tour has had to be amended from what was advertised at the last minute. This will bring even more uncertainty to the market and make peoples resistance to booking even firmer.

Nr have got to be held to account for their total inability to maintain clearances and route availabilities as they were when they took over responsibility for the network, which after all is a statutory obligation on their behalf.

 

You have to feel sorry for those passengers who paid the extra £15 for Enthusiast Class - just under 80 miles at the front of the train behind steam rather than over 140 had Bittern stayed on the front to Carlisle, or 155 had the stock been the other way around. Still at least they will be able to hear whether the diesel is pushing up Ais Gill and Wilpshire.

 

Good point. I'll try to get in touch with NR's Charter Services. They've been reasonable in the past and happy to give out information about issues like this. If I get a reply I'll post it.

 

Hope the Hadrian passengers in 2 weeks get more notice of any changes. This A4 restriction has been in the public domain for many weeks so a range of contingencies ought to have been possible and decided upon more than 48 hours before the operating date.
I'm sure all those involved have worked tirelessly for the best solution. They shouldn't be put in the position of having to do so at the last minute though.

 

The people over at Icons of Steam ( Bittern's PR group. ) have come forward tonight to say that due to gauging issues there will be changes on the S&C section of the tour at which they are unable to comment on.

Feeling sorry for Ben and co. at VT. What was looking to be a great tour has been plagued by a series of shortfalls of which no blame lie at their door, or indeed WCRC's. With the gauging issues being at the forefront of many cancellations or last minute changes, it questions what systems are being used at Milton Keynes to carry out the task of gauging a loco for a route, and why it always appears to be the eleventh hour for the information to be passed on to the tour operators and promoters.

I have all the up most respect for VT, WCRC and NR. Their jobs are not easy, and credit where due that for the most part the plans go without a hitch and they are not congratulated enough. However, in times like these, questions do have to be asked. Why is it always at the eleventh hour the bad news is given? Surely we're in an age where the information can be on hand at least a fortnight in advance, and at that point the tour can be given a green light, amber for changes or red for postponements/cancellations until a remedy is put in place?

 

The measurement train traversed the S&C a couple of weeks ago northbound mid afternoon the day of a WCME.

 

I have no respect for NR whatsoever. I have the utmost (note the correct word and spelling) for VT, WCRC and the loco owners. They are the true professionals, NR are just not "fit for Purpose" nor are a significant percentage of their staff.

Irrespective of the use or motive power I just do not think that our network is safe in their hands.