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RTT and things you may not know or realise

Discussion in 'What's Going on' started by RalphW, Apr 13, 2014.

  1. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    When times for a railtour appear on RTT some people are taking these as the official timing for the tour.
    I want to make it clear that these are the initial suggested times which are then used as a basis for working out the most acceptable times for all concerned, Tour Organisers, TOCs and NR.
    So please remember this and refrain from phoning the tour operator or complaining on here that they will not work, are a load of rubbish, do not give passenger enough time at destination etc etc...
    Often as we know, the times are not finalised until a few days before the tickets go out and RTT will then be amended/updated accordingly.
     
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  2. Big Al

    Big Al Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    And can I add that I fell foul of RTT in noticing an ECS movement for the Dartmouth Express on the 19th that prompted me to say something in that thread that was actually unhelpful at the time, especially as timings were still very much yet to be agreed. To illustrate this point, you may all recall that on the Wandering 1500 Trip last year the RTC/WCR worked hard to get a sensible solution to the gauging issue over Oliver Cromwell. But that didn't stop RTT still showing the path back into King's Cross when actually we were coming home via Colchester into Stratford.

    Sometimes a little information can be worse than no information especially if that confuses the situation.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2014
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  3. Romsey

    Romsey Active Member

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    RTT takes it's data from Network Rail computer systems (TPS upload to TSDB and CIS) under freedom of information access. Uploaded timings can be changed for any number of reasons. ( Customer requirements, pathing or operational.) The final version which is published on the "Special Trains Notice" is the definitive version. That would be uploaded overnight on the day the notice was issued.

    Don't knock it - just remember what it was like tracking down special workings before RTT!
    ( Or the 1980's where mere mortals didn't have mobile phone to ring a contact to find out how a railtour was running.)

    Cheers, Neil
     
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  4. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Resident of Nat Pres Account Suspended

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    Indeed in that wandering 1500 tour, there were people on the train, with the timings in RTCs own booklet in hand, who still hung out of the window at Norwich wondering which line it was going to take on departure. Whilst the WCRC/RTC guys did not understand why anyone would not believe them…

    Fantastic trip back down the GEML, at least until Witham.
     
  5. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Member

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    RTT is a very useful tool for timings, and I would suggest that the easiest way to ensure that a particular train's timings are valid is to check that the train has been 'activated' , which usually only happens on the day. Any special workings usually have several caveats such as 'runs when required' or similar. It's hard to believe that people would actually blame tour operators for RTT data, or lack of it!
     
  6. gwr4090

    gwr4090 Part of the furniture

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    Historic RTT data only remains available online for about one month or so after the train has run. So I am planning to store an archive copy of the RTT data (including both scheduled and actual times) for SOME of the more interesting steam hauled trains at www.uksteam.info. The stored data will be accessible from the RTT link at the top of the Times listing as usual. But I will only be doing this for a limited number of the more interesting tours, and rarely for loco movements etc.

    David
    www.uksteam.info
     
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  7. Big Al

    Big Al Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    David
    That's a really good idea as it will give folk who were not on the trip the opportunity to relive it, if only in a virtual manner. With my own records I occasionally look at previous logs and it's funny how just a set of times and speeds bring back the actual event. Whilst http://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/trf/trfindex.htm captures some of the headline data and the odd story, the RTT data is often quite detailed. A pity though that, for example, the memorable Top Gear trip was too early for RTT as those of us who were on it know how special that was.

    So thanks for the thought.
    Alan
     
  8. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    That's a great idea David and a worthwhile record.
     
  9. Enterprise

    Enterprise Part of the furniture

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    There are GPS logs of the Top Gear trip. Certainly was special.
     
  10. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I've got a copy of the realtime data from the Cheltenham Flyer saved on my external hardrive, seeing it gain time almost all the way in each direction.
     
  11. Western Venturer

    Western Venturer Active Member

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    RTT is one,if not the, most valuble tool for lineside folk..cant believe people knock it...having waited, before RTT, for a train only to hear its hour or something late and walked away from my location just as it appears its excellent to be able to see where it is and exactly what time its due. As has been said,routes may change through various problems,and has also been sdaid the info is what network Rail use so is as good as it can be....and before anybody shouts freeloader,I do my share of charters....
     
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  12. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Nick I think you will find that some people will knock anything that is not available when they want it, not easily accessably at all times, and not 100% accurate at all times and free.
    The above happened often when Glyn introduced the text based info system, many could not be bothered to send updates but moaned when non appeared, they also moaned about having to pay a few pence for each one received....
    Similarly with UK Steam, there are still those who complain about small errors of various sorts, but do they bother to send an email to David, no, they just posted complaints on here.
     
  13. threelinkdave

    threelinkdave Well-Known Member Friend

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    I have a query for the experts which might settle an issue re the West Somerset Explorer. The down train did not leave Kidderminster early, as confirmed by TRUST and my station colleagues. RTT still shows the early departure. It appears that if RTT gets duff data it cant corect itself when accurate data turns up. I also note that if you hover over a time what looks like a source ccode is revealed. I note that the eroneous tome is TD (SJ) where others are noted as TRUST. Is this the reason for the discrepancy
     
  14. Neil_Scott

    Neil_Scott Part of the furniture

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    It shouldn't still show the early departure as TRUST updated itself when the headcode moved forward when the train departed at the right time. The TRUST entry for the train updated itself and showed no record of the previous early departure time. I'm surprised that RTT would still show something that TRUST has corrected.
     
  15. threelinkdave

    threelinkdave Well-Known Member Friend

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    Still showing on RTT today. Tried a screen dump but didnt work
     
  16. mrKnowwun

    mrKnowwun Part of the furniture

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    AS most of the rail tours are STP "short term planning' the RTT times from TRUST ARE the finalised times. Thats not to say they won't change if something else crops up on an even shorter term plan.
     
  17. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Well then in that case they are not finalised are they, as I said originally they are the initial proposed times which are subject to negotiation.
     
  18. mrKnowwun

    mrKnowwun Part of the furniture

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    well put it like this, they are short term planning (STP) so they appear a few days before departure (unlike other plans) when there is little time to negotiate, and they rarely get changed. I haven't seen many STP timings changed this year between appearing on RTT and departure, have you? They are about as finalised as anything gets when it appears on the timetable.

    Except of course when they are cancelled. Or changed because the operator can't come up with the planned goods.
     
  19. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Part of the furniture

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    One has to be careful about the interface between TRUST and RTT. Whilst not aware of the interface I venture to suggest that if RTT is linked into TRUST it will display the TRUST data at the time of connection and only update when either refreshed or closed then re-connected.

    I became aware of this recently when a single 350 unit ran from Manchester Airport on a Glasgow service but was turned back at Preston when the southbound Glasgow - Airport service, formed of 2 units was turned back to form the northbound service because of the greater capacity. The single unit was then terminated at Manchester Piccadilly and retired to the depot at Ardwick rather than continue to the Airport. Whilst some of these changed moves appeared on TRUST, they didn't appear on RTT hence the question of interface and timing that may seem more noticeable when out of course events arise.
     
  20. mrKnowwun

    mrKnowwun Part of the furniture

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    The feed is not 100% reliable, No problem with the web application, but the external NR interface has limited available connections
     

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