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Rother Valley Railway

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by nine elms fan, Nov 4, 2012.

  1. alastair

    alastair Well-Known Member

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    Another 2 years has gone past and I see that the planning application to reinstate the RVR has been with the local planning dept for well over 2 years. There were optimistic comments on the RVR website about issues being resolved but that was over a year ago.

    Can anyone give any indication of what is going on?

    Thanks
     
  2. Miff

    Miff Part of the furniture Friend

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    It looks like a rather protracted dialogue with the Environment Agency has held things up. See statement on the RVR news blog at:
    http://rvrailway.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/planning-application-update-september.html Frustrating but this kind of thing is not uncommom with complex planning applications, particularly when some of the railway landowners are objecting. On the optimistic hand it should be remembered that the planning authority (Rother District Council) have granted all of RVR's previous planning applications and their Local Plan, very significantly since this guides their response to all planning applications, supports reinstatement of the railway.

    In the meantime the RVR has not been standing still. The permanent track and platform layout at Robertsbridge is nearing completion, and the Network Rail connection is now in place.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2016
  3. Wenlock

    Wenlock Well-Known Member Friend

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    I like the information on that site, however I find it loads very slowly for me.
     
  4. desperado

    desperado Member

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    One of the postings on that site said something about a change of staff at the Environment Agency meaning some things had to be re-done or done differently or done in more detail than before (take your pick).
     
  5. Fireline

    Fireline Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that pretty much sums it up.
     
  6. James111983

    James111983 New Member

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    Just thought I'd bump this thread up as it's a project I've helped on in small amounts, installing a few of the turnouts along with many others from LU who have helped. Bits of the Uxbridge branch are now in Kent along with part of Lille Bridge!

    Great day and hopefully all will go well with the planning application which I understand should be submitted either this month or January. Then onwards with the next two miles of plain line.

    http://rvrailway.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/the-network-rail-connection-officially.html?m=1

    Next is the engine shed, some further extension of network rails headshunt off the mainline and starting with the s&c installation once a colleague receives the design.

    I was lucky to be invited as well so a few pictures below. Sorry about the quality, camera phone and low lying fog.

    Big credit to network rail on this, as it has been very much pushed through by Peter Hendy to get the signalling and track side done and commissioned, the link was managed by a young graduate girl from nwr, so she's done amazingly well on this. Also LU who I work for as its us who've designed the rvr side and helped install and procure elements along with help from kesr pway teams.

    Sorry for the diesels, did get to see the fives fly through back to London.

    Keep looking for possible events in may next year I understand. Cannot say too much but I believe it's a linked event with kesr.

    James
     

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    Last edited: Dec 8, 2016
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  7. Woodster21

    Woodster21 Member

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    NR video of the connection with RVR
     
  8. alastair

    alastair Well-Known Member

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  9. pmh_74

    pmh_74 Well-Known Member

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    Encouraging. I don't think I'd be very happy about the restrictions on the A21 crossing times though.
     
  10. John Stewart

    John Stewart Part of the furniture

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    They can live with that. Establishing the certainty of the principle will give the scheme added confidence. If the A21 is ever dualled a bridge might well emerge.
     
  11. threelinkdave

    threelinkdave Well-Known Member

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    Crossing the A21 was always going to be contentious. The morning restriction is workable but the afternoon one less so as a train timetabled between 17.00 and 19.00 is a distinct possibility. Having volunteered at KESR I know use of the crossings can be an issue. I well remember running a ballast train across Rolvenden at 8.30 am and getting reaction from one driver in particular. The crossing at Northiam, when that was the end of the line, was actually closed to road traffic three tines for each train, arrival, loco runround and departure. Conventional gates are currently used at all crossings. Operation of manual gates is actually quite slick and certanly less than automatic crossings.

    When I was there the train would stop short of the gates. The fireman or guard would close the gates to road traffic the train would cross and the guard would open the gates to road traffic. Disturbance to traffic would be little moor than the time it took for the train to cross the road. On the A21 traincrew initiated barriers may be the quickest option.

    Although no longer a member I wish the RVR & KESR well in their application
     
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  12. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

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    Dave and I share some K&ESR history.

    I am a little more in touch, and late last year was privileged to be given a tour of Robertsbridge by Mark Yonge, a KESR / RVR stalwart, just after the Peter Hendy visit. The progress there is well worth a visit if you are in the area.

    The crossing on the A21 is a long way from the terminal arrangements at Robertsbridge Junction, so it will be a single pass for each train. The restrictions are sensible to allay local fears initially but may come, in time, to be seen by the locals as less necessary.

    I'll be there on opening day to Robertsbridge. Hopefully waiting on the Wealden Pullman special!

    Robin
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2017
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  13. burmister

    burmister Member

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    As someone who uses the A21 I do not see how on a summer weekend this will not increase the already chronic congestion on this road. Stringent weekday peak hour and weekend restrictions are an absolute must.
    I also pity the poor residents of Robertsbridge who will inevitable suffer additional weekend car parking congestion along with what goes on with commuters in the week. To suggest everybody will arrive by train or pay the station car park fees is just being economical with the truth.

    Limited numbers will travel the whole length of the line anyway it will be too long for a complete return trip in one go for families with young children. More likely people will travel to Bodium from either Robertsbridge or Tenterden. Ones hopes that the numbers d0ing so will offset the increased operating costs. The Bluebell is struggling with this after expanding to EG.

    Brian
     
  14. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

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    'We're all doomed Captain Mainwering, doomed I say!'

    The amount of additional congestion caused by the brief use of a level crossing by a heritage service along a single line will make a negligible contribution.

    And there is parking provision in the scheme.

    Length of heritage railways has been discussed ad infinitem but plenty of folk are happy to travel along a 20-mile West Somerset Railway, so why not an 11 (?) mile KESR? As with the WSR, you can't change the geography -Robertsbridge won't be moving any nearer Tenterden any time soon.

    The KESR is fortunate to have an intermediate attraction at Bodiam as well as the delightful town of Tenterden itself. All railways have to work out how to market themselves to an increasingly sophisticated leisure market. That is the challenge that will justify more locomotives and heritage rolling stock being in regular use. A good thing, surely?

    Robin (glass half full) White.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2017
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  15. threelinkdave

    threelinkdave Well-Known Member

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    I reccognise most of these comments from submissions on the application so they will be considered by the council.

    The SVR is 16 miles and most visitors do the full length so I believe this will not be an issue.

    As to car parking I have some sympathy as many motorists go to extremes to avoid paying. The RVR and SVR share a common problem, parking for NR cannot be seen in isolation to RVR.

    At Kidderminster there is a large NR car park and a substantial SVR car park. The SVR charge the same for parking as NR. If SVR parking was free the space would be filled with commuters and shoppers. Recently SVR parking was changed from pay and display to token operated barriers to resolve an enforcement issue. On many days the car park is fairly full which suggests whilst not that popular most passengers are willing to pay the fee. To allay any fears by RVR members there are arrangements for SVR working members so they incur no charge
     
  16. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    In the case of the Bluebell, the widespread feeling seems to be that we need to improve our marketing, particularly for the "turn up and go" bread-and-butter trade. (The premium, pre-sold trade is doing very well). If that analysis is correct, then it would have been true, extension or not. There is no evidence I am aware of that the line is too long (a round trip is about 1hr 3/4 from SP); as far as I am aware, all but a handful of tickets are all-line.

    With regard parking, there is no Bluebell parking for visitors at either Kingscote or East Grinstead. When Kingscote was the limit, the evidence from ticket sales was that the lack of parking simply deterred people starting there, rather than the alternative view that people chose to park inconsiderately in surrounding roads. As a planning condition, the Bluebell had to run a bus service from East Grinstead to Kingscote; it generated more or less no trade. Now that the terminus is East Grinstead with a rail connection and public car parks in town, there is considerable trade starting at the northern end of the line even without dedicated parking for the railway's own passengers - presumably the passengers we have either come by train, or else park elsewhere in the public town car parks. That suggests to me that a lack of dedicated station parking at Robertsbridge is more likely to make car-borne visitors simply start at Tenterden rather than park in the village. Robertsbridge obviously has the potential for visitors aiming to arrive by train.

    One interesting factor is the extent to which the extension - and by inference, a KESR extension to Robertsbridge - changes the passenger flow, and how your fixed infrastructure copes with that. In the Bluebell's case, our main "off railway" attraction (Sheffield Park Gardens, our equivalent of Bodiam Castle) is at the south end of the line. In theory, a day out starting at East Grinstead and visiting the gardens after a train journey to Sheffield Park ought to be an attractive proposition. However, all our storage facilities for locos and carriages are at Sheffield Park, so one of the challenges of running the service is to provide a viable day-long service from East Grinstead without running excessive light engine or ECS mileage, or needing to double-crew locomotives too often. One can imagine similar on the KESR if, for example, the extension starts to develop significant volume starting from Robertsbridge, but with locomotives based at the other end of the line. However, that's simply an operating challenge. If we started again from scratch, it might be desirable to have our locomotive and carriage facilities at the north end of the line, but it isn't going to change now, so we just have to adapt the service as best we can. We (at 11 miles) can cope with a single MPD, as can the MHR (at 10 miles). The WSR (20); NYMR (18) SVR (16) all have loco facilities at each end. Long term, it will be interesting whether a 13 mile KESR is closer to the Bluebell / MHR model, or closer to the SVR / NYMR model.

    Tom
     
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  17. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

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    There is provision at Robertsbridge for both a loco shed and carriage berthing.

    Robin
     
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  18. nanstallon

    nanstallon Part of the furniture

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    Fortune favours the brave - go for it, K&ESR!

    John
     
  19. pmh_74

    pmh_74 Well-Known Member

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    I do understand why the local planners want to restrict the use if the A21 crossing but if I was involved in the KESR I'd be lobbying for a little more flexibility. For example what if the last timetabled train over the crossing is scheduled for 16.30 but it's 35 minutes late one day, does it have to stand for two hours? Why do they want to restrict it on bank holidays? And the restriction effectively means no possibility of a commuter service (if that were ever considered).
    As far as traffic goes I can't see it as a problem, you should be able to offer through ticketing from NR and could market it as part of a day out from London to Bodiam Castle.

    On the subject of the Bluebell's connecting bus, I's suggest it would have attracted more trade if it had actually connected. The one time I tried to use it I would have had to wait something like 50 minutes for a bus which led to an hour or more's wait at Kingscote and prevented me from doing a full round trip. I gave up and took a taxi instead as there was basically no choice.
     
  20. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    The A21 seems to be the biggest problem, as i see it, the crossing is just a few meters from a roundabout so you could have possible traffic problems when the barriers are down, which will impact on the roundabout for traffic heading towards Hastings it has been argued that some traffic calming and lowering of speed limits on this section of the A21 may be a good thing, a lot depends on the operation, i'm assuming we are talking full barriers with CCTV for both Northbridge street and the A21 operated from Robertsbridge sttation prior to departure , half barriers will be ok on Junction Rd, but on the A21, there will be too much temptation for drivers to ignore the barriers and chance it they can weave round before the 1400 wipes them out so if your taking remote operation, how long does it take for a train to reach the A21 after being given the right of way at Robertsbridge ? 5 mins? - 10 mins, and how long do you allow to ensure both barriers are down?
    the best hope is that the road is turned into a duel road and that a bridge over the railway and diversion is put in at some point in the future that will remove the bulk of the traffic over the level crossing
     

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