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Railway Touring Company's 2017 Programme

Discussion in 'What's Going on' started by Bulleid Pacific, Oct 29, 2016.

  1. D7076

    D7076 Active Member

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    So negligent in not realising that in your opinion the 50th anniversary more important than 40th and it couldn't do both so should have ensured the 40th anniversary deadline was missed.
    Perhaps if you send Mr I Riley say £400,000 he may be able to overhaul the loco in time for you....
     
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  2. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    I don't see that the owners have any obligations, as with Mr Cameron, he intends to take 60009 out of service and that's his prerogative. End of story.
     
  3. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    Is it an unreasonable proposition that the 50th might be historically significant?
    Is it unreasonable to expect that 70013 might be important to any commemoration?
    Is it unreasonable to consider that NRM might think the date historically important and relevant to its business?
    Is it unreasonable to believe objectives might be set accordingly?
    Is it unreasonable to make an assumption that the lengthy downtime for boiler repairs was connected with points above? It now seems the work was to obtain an extension which will not take in the relevant date.
    As I said it is probably too late now but I do think it was negligent to apparently fail to consider ways in which 70013 could be mainline certified at the date in question given that it was so clearly in view for several years. If some assistance would have been necessary to achieve this objective then this could have been requested in good time and I am confident would have received positive responses. My understanding is also that agreement exists with the custodians to overhaul it so the question of it ceasing to be a runner is specious.
     
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  4. Big Al

    Big Al Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    To my mind absolutely nothing "was negligent to apparently fail to consider ways in which 70013 could be mainline certified at the date in question".

    Unless you are a key part of the engineering team behind Oliver Cromwell and/or the NRM management you simply can have no idea of what was discussed or planned and what was possible given what needed to be done with the locomotive.

    No doubt the RTC will find a way of running something out of Liverpool in 2018 to commemorate the event. Perhaps we should all just be grateful that something might be possible that far down the line from the actual event.
     
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  5. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    As you will be well aware the key to achieving your objectives is to plan well for all stages. My question is why the date was not seen as important so that action could be taken in good time. It is already decided to overhaul it so with a bit of consideration and requests for support it isn't unreasonable to think a successful result could have been accomplished. I fully appreciate such things are no mean feat requiring colossal endeavour and resources but aiming to have 70013 on the mainline in August 2018 ought to have been an objective imho, just as it was in 2008. What is the difference apart from 2018 is arguably more historically significant? Look at 35028 and the anniversary this summer for an example.
     
  6. MellishR

    MellishR Well-Known Member Friend

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    I agree that some foresight in this matter would have been good. A fifty-year anniversary certainly has a higher profile than any earlier one. There have already been some more-or-less re-runs of the Fifteen Guinea Special, there certainly should be another one next year, and the more nearly it can reproduce the original one the better.
     
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  7. 60017

    60017 Part of the furniture Friend

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    Unfortunately, I fear that your opinions on 70013 are probably tainted by your regular criticism of WCR. Some contributors to this forum will also suspect that you are being deliberately controversial by continuing to defend your view at every turn, prompting even more responses. Whilst we all enjoy discussion, sometimes we have to accept that not everyone supports individual opinion and there is a time 'to let it go.'

    In this case, I'd quit whilst you are behind.
     
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  8. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    I totally agree and am appreciative of whatever ultimately occurs. I do think however given previous public involvement something similar ought to have been floated concerning 70013 by the owners or custodians. I am also fully understanding that the custodians are very stretched so it is understandable this didn't happen. My sense of mild frustration is perhaps because I made the false assumption the latest works were to get 70013 mainline fit to take in the anniversary, that's all.
     
  9. Bulleid Pacific

    Bulleid Pacific Part of the furniture

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    You wouldn't have thought it... In the round, if an outsider wandered in, they'd walk away with the impression that:

    1. Passengers are rioting on the trains because there's a diesel on the back, the route has changed, or the catering is duff.

    2. Locomotive owners/operators/restorers are incompetent. They don't meet the expectations of the enthusiast fraternity as they don't meet key deadlines/anniversaries, paint the loco in the wrong colour, or just don't drip feed enough information about rivets.

    3. Heritage railways are clearly incapable of looking after said locomotives.

    4. Real railway enthusiasts are not involved, and clearly know what's best for the movement as a result; if only the above parties knew it.

    5. The movement needs to treat it's volunteers better.

    6. The movement is constrained by it's volunteers and they need to work harder to meet elements of 1 and 2 above.

    Ergo, the movement is doomed.
     
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  10. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    Same with any subject, you get divergent opinions. Can't see a problem with that, the world keeps on turning whilst we chew the fat in the virtual tap room that is NP.
     
  11. Big Al

    Big Al Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    And what makes you think that nothing was discussed? Just because it didn't involve me (or you) doesn't mean that it did not take place. I think that @60017 has already suggested that perhaps you should give this hobby horse a rest while you are behind (and before you fall off). I'm inclined to agree.
     
  12. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    Thanks for the advice, I assume everyone that perpetuates a discussion of any sort will be similarly told to shut up?
    As you say we do not know what was considered and my disappointment arises simply from my own false assumption that no news was good news. This does not make it any the less regrettable - personal view.
     
  13. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    How on earth are you able to conflate 70013 discussion with posts about WCR? If I did not know better I could reach a conclusion you are stirring a pot there which would do you no credit.
    Criticise my point of view by all means but less of the accusations please.
     
  14. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 New Member

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    Disregarding the when/if/ should they have done debate has it actually been stated that Cromwell will be even overhauled again by the NRM, or is it going to become another static exhibit?
     
  15. iancawthorne

    iancawthorne Active Member

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    The 5305 Association overhauled 70013 I believe, not the NRM, who are the owners. I don't think the 5305 Association or the NRM have announced anything to say there will be another overhaul, but personally I'd like to think there is a good chance it will be.
     
  16. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    I seem to recall reading the custody agreement has been / will be renewed to include a further period of mainline operation. Cannot remember where or when I read it though and this is in part why I made the assumptions 70013 would be able to haul a 50th anniversary 1t57.
    Interestingly the 5th July Bournemouth Belle with 35028 is being publicised as the most prestigious and historically important steam charter of 2017. Ditto 1T57 in 2018 as far as I am concerned.
     
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  17. 60017

    60017 Part of the furniture Friend

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    OK.
     
  18. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    The owner is NRM. It is the lead organisation in the UK for railway history is it not? Don't you get it?
     
  19. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Go ask the NRM/5305LA instead of boring the tits off me on this thread. Correction - go tell the NRM/5305LA that they've got it horribly wrong and have been negligent. Then offer to take on the project management of 70013. I'm sure your undoubted expertise will come in soooooo useful.
     
  20. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Don't mince your words Spam :D
     

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