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Pre grouping loco workings

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by 22A, Mar 22, 2017.

  1. 22A

    22A Well-Known Member

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    I read in a book that once a week, a LBSCR carriage would be attached to other company's trains and would travel all the way to Inverness. This saved passengers the inconvenience of changing at London and Edinburgh.
    This raises my question, what was the furthest away from home territory any loco worked in pre grouping days?
    After the Grouping and into BR days, locos of the big four could occasionally be seen at Oxford, but pre 1923?
     
  2. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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    As regards Oxford, I'd suggest that LSWR and SECR locos might work in via their respective lines to Reading and Great Central locos via their connection to Banbury, plus LNWR locos via their Oxford Rewley Rd branch. Probably others too such as LBSCR. What a sight it must have been back then
     
  3. Cartman

    Cartman Well-Known Member Account Suspended

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    I understand some GWR types occasionally got to Manchester. Anyone know?

    Do we count 6858 Woolston Grange reaching Huddersfield?
     
  4. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Are we talking regular workings as opposed to the likes of a GWR 28xx working on the NBR or loans of locos to the ROD etc?
     
  5. 22A

    22A Well-Known Member

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    Ah yes; I mean either regular or if not. then frequent workings, not one offs, thanks.
     
  6. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    LBSCR Locos had a regular duty to Rugby; and LNWR locos to Brighton, on the "Sunny South Express".

    This is at Brighton:

    picture-quiz.png

    Tom
     
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  7. Cartman

    Cartman Well-Known Member Account Suspended

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    Which route would the LNWR have taken to get to Brighton? would it have been the same one as I went on in about 2002 on my only ever rail journey to Brighton? I changed at Watford Junction and got on a 319 I think it was, which went somewhere round West London, changing from 25kv to third rail at some point
     
  8. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Nat Pres stalwart

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    The changeover would have been, IIRC, near Scrubs Lane in Shepherd's Bush - which the Overground trains do even now.
     
  9. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    Did the crew work through or would it have been handed over to a LBSC crew at some stage
     
  10. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    I've never seen it definitively stated. However, a stop was made in each direction at Willesden, and I suspect that was to pick up a pilotman, but with the "home" crew staying on board to drive and fire. Part of the reason for the through working was to give a thorough trial of the superheaters fitted to the LBSCR I3 tank engines that ran the service, and compare with the LNWR 4-4-0 in opposition, so there would have been an advantage to the locos running with crews familiar with them. The actual duty involved 77.25 miles non stop between Rugby and Willesden, and 90.5 miles without taking water, which the I3s did with ease - indeed, the detailed coal and water consumption figures were somewhat humiliating for the LNWR, and led directly to the take up of superheating on that railway.

    Over a series of runs, generally consisting of 7 LNWR bogie coaches weighing 223 tons empty (but sometimes loading to 8 on account of the number of passengers), the LNWR and LBSCR locos worked turn and turn about, with the following results:

    LBSCR No. 23 (eleven trips): Coal consumption: 27.4 lbs / mile Water consumption: 22.4 gallons / mile
    LBSCR No. 26 (one trip): Coal consumption: 28.1 lbs / mile Water consumption: 22.7 gallons / mile
    LNWR "Titan" (all trips): Coal consumption: 41.2 lbs / mile Water consumption: 36.6 gallons / mile

    Tom
     
  11. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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    I think they would have just swapped crews, a pilotman would be wasteful. Quite common for WR and SR crews to swap footplates so probably the same applied with other companies. Locomen were expected to climb aboard anything and drive it with no special training ( the USA locos for example)
     
  12. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    Thank you

    The I3's sound like excellent locomotives - see http://www.semgonline.com/steam/i3class_01.html

    But I'm not convinced by the claim of Brighton to Rugby without taking in water
     
  13. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    It was East Croydon to Rugby without taking water, about 90 miles - the SEMGonline page is wrong there. The locos had 3.5 ton bunker and were apparently taking a top-up of about 15cwt at Rugby before coming back to Brighton with plenty of coal left. The coal consumption figures indicate about 3.25 tons to do the 260 mile Brighton - Rugby - Brighton round trip. The water consumption figures indicate about 150 gallons left to do East Croydon to Rugby without filling up, which sounds pretty hairy but was apparently routinely done.

    Tom
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017
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  14. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    All that was needed for a crew to work through was route knowledge, and it wasn't uncommon for crews to work over foreign metals. North Staffs engines - and crews - wandered far and wide over northern England, the Midlands and into Wales. The Notty had running powers over an amazing number of routes, and far more in mileage terms than their own system.
     
  15. Forestpines

    Forestpines Well-Known Member

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    I have a vague recollection that GCR locos regularly reached Bristol and occasionally Plymouth.
     
  16. ragl

    ragl Well-Known Member

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    They did indeed, usually an "Atlantic" turn.

    Cheers,

    Alan
     
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  17. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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    I think I read in an Adrian Vaughan book of regular GC engines working to Swindon (of all places) not sure this would be pre-grouping though
     
  18. ragl

    ragl Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it was pre-grouping. The Plymouth turn amounted to a fail as on the first trip the G.C. driver refused assistance on Hemerdon and of course, stalled; my word they were a wee bit too proud in those days...

    Cheers,

    Alan
     
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  19. D6332found

    D6332found Member

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    GWR coaches to York, they may have worked through to Newcastle?
     
  20. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    I have been told, and see no reason to doubt it that in steam days the good crews - and some were terrible, were very experienced and skilful, so I suggest that they knew what they could do - and not do, so arriving at Rugby with 150 gallons on the tank sounds credible - of course what was the level in the boiler - if its 3/4 of the way up the glass its very different to being at the very bottom.

    I suspect as well that there were many opportunities to take water in needed and that the Brighton men were showing what they could do, as was the GCR Driver on Hemerdon, its just that for him it went wrong..............
     

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