Polish steam engines looking for good homes.

The Charity set up by PKP (Polish State Railways) to market its heritage railway assets is putting out feelers regarding good homes for some of Poland's 200 plus 'surplus' steam engines.

More details here: http://polishrail.wordpress.com/2009/01/23/save-a-polish-steam-engine/

 

Got anything better looking than the TKh? 8-[

 

Well, I don't think that the FEP will give you an steam engine to take away to the West Somerset. However, if you are prepared to keep the engine in Poland, loading gauge is no longer a problem and you have quite a few classes to choose from!

Mind you, if you really want a British loading gauge engine, there are two Vulcan built Tr202s in open air museums in Poland...

 

Who in their right mind would want to bring a Polish engine to the UK. Is there anyone out there who has bouught one and NOT had loads of trouble with it?

Polish boiler work, steam fittings made from steel.... light blue touchpaper...

 

Ive been kind of interested in getting involved with steam in Poland for a few years.

I have tentatively enquired a few times, including to some of the people mentioned on the blog website previously, however it seems strange that even 18 months ago just being a foreigner would result in the phone being hung up before you said "Czesc". I enquired on one engine , which they preferred to scrap at half scrap price , just to avoid it going to a foreign owner, and another Ol49 they withdrew from Auction as no one "Polish" bid on it... (even the scrap dealer was Slovak, as I asked them too).
I had the case of the guy with a tkt tank, who's number changed everytime I spoke with him, (several numbers we're offered) all of which were dubious as was its mysterious location so in the end I stopped trying.

However, suddenly we have this major attitude change that said if legit, this is a good oppourtunity.

PKP will be justified soon in scrapping whats left, if no one in Poland or outside Poland wants to buy, then in reality it cannot be said they didnt try, and a cash strapped company can legitimately liquid this asset it certainly hasnt got any future need of and no one else accepted. There are enough engines of the same type out there still, to be able to secure a "whole one", or more at current scrap prices, which are quite low, could allow for multiple to be bought.

The most important thing would be to treat Poles as equals, if not the experts, once they know your with them, they can be fantastic people and will help all the way.

So ive sat on the fence here for a while.. if theres anyone interested, or anyone out there looking for someone interested... then message me, Polish language isnt an issue, I will be enquiring regardless...i'm all for preserved Polish steam in Poland.

 

Hi, Thanks for a very positive reply. I only wish that there really had been 'a major change of attitude'. The reality is darker and more complex. There is a massive cultural barrier between Polish and British railway enthusiasts. The former, worn down by years of fighting bureaucracy and red tape, rather resent the relative wealth and 'can do' attitude of the British. The Brits have had their fingers burnt many times by Poles who regard a railway enthusiast from the West as a 'nice little earner' rather than as a genuine partner in their own heritage rail projects. The result is all too little co-operation in country that desperately needs outside help to save its dwindling park of heritage railway assets.

The guys in Fundacja Era Parowozow were set up by PKP Cargo to look after Cargo's heritage rolling stock. The only problem is that, once they were set up and funded, Cargo changed its mind and FEP is now little more than a marketing arm for the steam specials that Cargo really doesn't want to run.

But the FEP guys are enthusiasts, and they can see what's happening around the country: that the PSMK society can't raise the resources to repair the roof at Skierniewice; that the TOZKiOS brothers in Pyskowice can't muster enough political support to save their shed; that the former 'skansen' at Krzesowice was really a scrapyard; that the National Railway Museum in Warsaw was run by someone only interested in selling model railway locomotives to wealthy collectors... . So their sending out exploratory feelers to the Western enthusiast community is more like gambling on a last spin of the roulette wheel than a conversion on the road to Damascus.

The big change is that there are now some local authority owned railways where it would be possible to run preserved steam completely independently of PKP, siuch as the Czempin-Srem line.

So do please do contact the Foundation and let us all know how you get on. Oh and if someone does put the phone down on you please let us all know as well!

 

Our friend in the Fundacja Era Parowozow reports that FEP have had their first phone call from a prospective British loco restorer as a result of the post at the head of this thread!

 

Do Howard and Trevor Jones of the Wolzstyn Experience know anything about this seeing as they already have good in's with PKP, or at least part of it, perhaps they might be able to help prospective purchasers?

 

I think you'll find that Howard and Trevor have enough problems maintaining the Wolsztyn project - especially given the tremendous upheavals being caused by the privatisation of the network and the consequent interface changes between both personnel and operating departments.

Admittedly this gives rise to opportunists whose actions have a more personal bent but I don't think there is either the time or the acceptance of a co-ordinating body such as the Heritage Railway Association in the UK.

Perhaps - in the short term - that might be the better project to work on.

 

Quite possibly Fred, seen the report about the financial issues they have. Was just a thought.

 

Wolsztyn is a business aimed at profit, for the target of maintaining working steam. it's not a museum. It is also fighting a company that doesnt want or need it. Think of it in terms of the West Coast Railway operation in West Highlands, WCRC runs for Profit, the West Highland doesnt need steam. They have access to 30+ locomotives and works facilities. They are self-reliant somewhat. Any other preserved railways, musuems etc in Poland threaten their own future. Therefore assistance to preservationists is more of a hinderance to it's operations. I wouldnt hold out for help there.

As for a coordinating body.. that was supposed to be Fundjca Era Parowozy, they are doing best they can in the circumstance and in reality is an organisation set up under protest rather than preservation minded PKP departments.

For this reason I really dont think Poland would welcome a British Organisation setting up telling PKP how to manage a scrap asset of no value. Put it another way, what would British Rail make of a Polish Preservation group telling BR how to look after lines of scrap engines in 1966 ? - they wouldnt even talk to them.

You need to save whats there, and focus on making them safe, and let preservation nature take it's course. .. because currently natural nature IS taking it's own course.
Without steam there wont be preserved railways. Without preserved railways there is no future for Polish steam. Without money, there is neither. Therefore FEP are right to try to save them now, so there are steam locomotives in the future, and hence the potential for preserved railways... long after the wolsztyn either become a Polish Steam TOC, or a faded memory.

 

The 'Wolsztyn Experience' business is not self contained financially. It meets some 20% of running expenses of running the shed, the rest is shared out between PKP Cargo (which is on the point of bankruptcy) and the provincial governor's office of Wielkopolska. 'WE' does not own any locos. There are barely half a dozen working engines at Wolsztyn and eight at Chabowka (including locos that are under repair.)

'WE' does cooperate with Polish railway heritage groups - the Smigiel 750mm line where it runs its n.g. footplate courses; the Gniezno line from which it hires a Px48; the Jaworzyna Slask Museum from where it hired a Tkt48. There's no reason why this shouldn't increase in future.

Well, yes and no. FEP was supposed to take over all of PKP Cargo's museum locomotives and rolling stock and seek grants and donations. It was never supposed to be the Polish equivalent of the HRA. Anyway, Cargo had second thoughts at the last moment, and FEP is little more than a marketing organisation. But the people in FEP's Warsaw office (not, I'm afraid, the PKP Directors who sit on its supervisory board) are good blokes genuinely interested in saving as much of Poland's railway heritage as possible.

Well actually there are a group of Bits and Poles working together to set up a national railway heritage umbrella body. What the Brits can contribute is their own experience of the trials and tribulation of the UK preservation movement. It's taken some 6 years for the idea to reach the point where the key Polish societies are willing to support the idea.

There is absolutely no danger of Wolsztyn SHED fading away. But there is a very real danger that it may be taken over by ignorant people who would see its future as a railway MUSEUM rather than a working steam centre. I, for one, am not prepared to let 'nature take its own course' on this and am prepared to lobby hard for the preservation of Wolsztyn as a working depot servicing engines hauling regular service trains. As Howard Jones once put it, You can go to a zoo to see lions, or you can go to Africa and see them in the wild...

Anyone wanting to contact me privately about this is welcome to mail me at - neohagrid [at] yahoo.com.