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Permitted gradients in terminal stations, runrounds etc.

Discussion in 'Civil Engineering M.I.C.' started by daveannjon, Sep 27, 2008.

  1. daveannjon

    daveannjon Active Member

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    Can anyone tell me where to find information about maximum gradients allowed in terminal stations with runround loops? I've tried searching the Group Standards but not found anything so far. This is for new build btw.

    Thanks
    Dave
     
  2. steamybrian

    steamybrian New Member

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    As a starting point for discussion (open for correction) I would suggest a gradient no steeper than 1 in 264. On gradients steeper than this vehicles can run away under gravity if the brakes are not screwed on.
    Can anyone else confirm/agree.
    Otherwise seek views of HM Railway Inspectorate.
     
  3. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    The requirements are laid down by the Office of Rail Regulation. for Heritage Railways see:
    http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/upload/pdf/r ... orrail.pdf

    Section 192 states:
    "Stations should be constructed with straight platforms and on the level or on a gradient not steeper than 1 in 500. Minor stations at which trains do not terminate or reverse may be constructed on steeper gradients where suitable arrangements can be made to ensure safety, subject to the agreement of HMRI."

    HTH
    Steve
     
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  4. daveannjon

    daveannjon Active Member

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    Thank you very much!

    Dave
     
  5. Rumpole

    Rumpole Well-Known Member

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    Not sure about the effect this has on other railways, but the site of Norden station on the Swanage Railway was re-graded before the station could be constructed, hence the 'ski-ramp' 1-in-56 section shortly before the platform.
     
  6. olly5764

    olly5764 Well-Known Member

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    Of course, those rules apply to new stations, particulally places like Kiethley could have trouble else!
     
  7. Small Prairie

    Small Prairie Part of the furniture

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    I don’t know the answer myself but would it not be a safer bet to ask the HMRI themselves to make sure any info is actually correct?
     
  8. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    The info that I quoted is from HMRI (ORR). It is their bible which they always refer you to and the posted info on their website is always up-to-date. Having said that, in my experience, they are a very flexible organisation and will listen to any reasonable proposals where the standards cannot be applied. Safely controlling the risk is what it is about. The standards do also change from time to time. For example, ramps on the end of platforms were once a mandatory requirement, These days they are no longer necessary.

    And, as Olly5764 says, they are not retrospective.
     
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  9. steamybrian

    steamybrian New Member

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    Thanks for giving us the link to the ORR guidelines. Very useful gen.
     
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  10. Kerosene Castle

    Kerosene Castle Well-Known Member

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    I wonder what Britain's steepest station is/was? The Lynton & Barnstaple had one on a 1 in 50 (albeit only a halt), but I wouldn't be surprised if there were others that are worse than that. (I think having a rack inbetween the rails is cheating though!)
     
  11. mick wilson

    mick wilson Member

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    Narrow gauge, funicular or rack railway excepted, which heritage railway has got the steepest platform? Although I doubt it is nearly the steepest Highley on the SVR, in down direction, is a very difficult start.
     
  12. lil Bear

    lil Bear Part of the furniture

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    Berwyn is on a 1in85 IIRC
     
  13. sto243

    sto243 New Member Account Suspended

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    Beddgelert on the WHR was once and soon will be again on 1 in 40.
     
  14. steamybrian

    steamybrian New Member

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    On the National Rail system I would suggest..
    City Thameslink in Central London. Whilst most of the platform is on the level the southern end of the platform bends to
    .... 1 in 29.....
    Southbound electric trains from a standing start climb the "very short" distance at 1 in 29 to Blackfriars. Is it the steepest on NR.?
    This then leads on to another question... are City Thameslink and Blackfriars the closest stations on NR at barely a train length apart..?
     
  15. mick wilson

    mick wilson Member

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    Foul! I excluded narrow gauge.


    Double Foul. I also excluded NR metals by saying heritage lines.

    Berwyn is in front at present.
     
  16. Rumpole

    Rumpole Well-Known Member

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    Colesloggett Halt, Bodmin and Wenford has got to be well up there, at 1 in 40.
     
  17. Kerosene Castle

    Kerosene Castle Well-Known Member

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    Hmm... I don't know about that. A gradient at the end? I think that's pushing the boundaries of the original question! (Boom boom!)
     
  18. mick wilson

    mick wilson Member

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    My question was really meant to mean all the way through the platform. If it just the last little bit it won't have a lot of influence on holding the train with the brake or starting it moving again. If the incline is steep and all the way through the platform the brakes and engine will need to work that much harder to hold the train and then to re-start it.

    If a station with a very steeep incline is to re-open does it have grand-father rights?
     
  19. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I'd suggest that it largely depends on what you want to do - just stop or detach locos and run round are fundamental questions It would also depend on how you managed the risks and what are the alternatives. HMRI are always quite approachable and will listen to reason.
     
  20. chopshopjohn

    chopshopjohn New Member

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    I would discount Coleslogget Halt as trains only stop going downhill. My vote would go to Furnace Halt on the Pontypool and Blaenavon Railway which is also 1 in 40.
     

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