Original Paint Jobs

The clearcoat was probably intended to block UV which is the main enemy of surface coatings. I have my doubts as to how effective it really is from experience with carbon fibre laminates. UV is of course a far smaller problem for objects that live indoors.

As for what point, well its going to be different for every object isn't it. Pete S' point about source information is IMHO very well made.

 

People seem to be looking at this as some kind of either / or, whereas there is space for both.

For example, here are two Corsairs. KD345 can be enjoyed in flight, demonstrating the performance of the type, though clearly significant parts have been replaced or modernised since it was in actual service. Whereas KD431 has been very carefully preserved and studied in archaeological detail, to reveal significant details about not only its own wartime service, but by inference the way such aircraft were built, maintained and modified. That study reveals a lot of information that would be lost were it ever to be repainted: as an obvious example just from the two photos, KD345 has been lovingly and neatly painted, whereas the "time capsule" KD431 indicates that a wartime finish was probably much rougher - compare the lettering on the two aircraft (especially the letter forms, for example the words "Royal Navy"). Repainting KD431 would lose that information, and once gone, it is gone for ever - unless steps have been taken to record it in detail, which was done in that specific case, but is far from universal.

I think the same standards apply in railway preservation. For example, City of Birmingham is broadly in a condition (components and finishes) that links it back to 1960s Crewe; given that Duchess of Sutherland has run in recent times and has been modified and repaired for modern conditions losing that direct connection to its original service, then in my mind there is no logic for steaming CoB, whereas Duchess of Sutherland could be, given sufficient resources, kept running indefinitely. Both would be appropriate treatment.





Tom

 

I'm with you up to a point, Tom. There are some machines (of whatever type) which for various reasons will never see service again and retaining an original paint job has merit. The bit that concerns me is where someone (I can't remember where or when) said something like CoB should never be returned to steam as tis would damage the BR applied paint. I can think of a number of good reasons why this loco should not be steamed, but paintwork isn't on the list.

Imagine the situation: an engine comes to the end of its ticket, and we are told, "The engine will not be overhauled. The tyres are excessively worn and these are the tyres fitted at its last BR overhaul so we can't replace them!"

We have had more than one livery debate (apologies for raising this subject. Please, no-one resurrect it!) and those of us who would have historically accurate liveries are told, "It's only a coat of paint." It seems we have two completely opposing points of view. No change there, of course!

 

Best way to preserve an original finish is to bury your artefact in an Egyptian tomb. Dig it out 3,000 years later and it will be perfect!

Sorry Chris ... not trying to trivialise your question, but clearly there is something about darkness and dryness that is part of the answer ... not really compatible with having the items on show.

IMO it would be nice if the NRM could identify a couple of original paint jobs that are worth preserving (e.g. 4003 plus one other) and do whatever it takes to prevent deterioration (short of burying them in the desert). Maybe in a century or two the public will be in awe of a mid-20th century Swindon paint job.

 

This I believe is a genuine 1960 Stratford Works paint job as initially preserved at Clapham and York. Now sadly showing signs of deterioration at Bressingham due to age and not being in totally ideal conditions.

 

Has the Midland Compound No 1000 been repainted since its first restoration in 1959?

 

I would have thought so, did it have a boiler lift when it went mainline in the late 70's early 80's? It's another machine I wouldn't mind seeing back in action, I may have to watch it on Railway Roundabout again now!

 

Not forgetting Gresley's EM1 26020 in a Doncaster lined black and DELTIC going back to Vulcan Foundry in 1963 and having a Lode Star style nut and bolt refinish with its authenitc Lead Blue paint, I think 'Coppernob' is original and I bet has faded through the years, I think it is Furness era paintwork and WW2 bulletholes?

 

I'm afraid steam engines are beyond my budget but having undertaken to return 1959-built Palbrick B wagon B462772 to as-built condition (from its modified state as a 1967-converted Freightliner match wagon) I rubbed down the awful scabby blue sprayed-on-top-of dirt Freightliner paint (1980s at a guess) and found all of the original lettering underneath right down to the exact build date as painted on by Ashford works when it was brand new in 1959. I then carefully traced everything and obliterated and painted over it. So I have un-preserved the original paint (which had survived the 1967 modifications and subsequent repaint) in order to preserve the rest of the vehicle. I have detailed tracings and it will all go back on. (Project stalled at present awaiting some parts... before you ask!)
I suppose I could have varnished it and left it but it wasn't too pretty once I'd taken the blue (and intermediate layer of bauxite) off the top. I've no idea how they did that on KD431 (aircraft aren't my thing I'm afraid, I'd never heard of it until this thread) but I guess it wasn't easy.

 

Aviation paint is different and comes off in a way that railway coach paint doesn't. Look for Dave Morris's book on how they did the Corsair, it's well worth a read.

 

Actually light exposure is still a considerable problem even for objects that live indoors. It is not so bad for small objects in a museum with purpose-built galleries and display cases. However, as soon as you have windows which let in natural light, you have a problem. This is particularly difficult in my field of work, country houses, because we are trying to preserve objects in their original context, so we don't want to introduce lots of modern artificial lighting.

The solution is to have "light budgets" for sensitive objects. You set a target light level and then decide how many hours of exposure the object can have each year. So, you can choose to display an object in low light all year round, or at a higher light level on a limited number of days.

Nothing will last forever. All objects are deteriorating, all the time. However, what you can do is make decisions about how you are going to manage the change. Measures like the above can extend the life of an object from tens of years to hundreds of years.

I have to admit though, I don't know whether places like the NRM, ThinkTank, Bressingham or STEAM have light-control measures...if not then that is going to limit the lifespan of the paint jobs we are discussing.

 

For sure, but UV is for most materials I have to deal with far worse, and even glass blocks a lot of it. Preservation of textiles especially must be a nightmare, I don't envy you one bit. Do you have to consider UV separately, I can imagine your light budget being significantly affected by the kind of light... Are different frequencies (=colour) a consideration? Is outside and inside a consideration?

The folks I really don't envy are the ones dealing with early plastics, I understand they are having major problems. Then of course there's mazak rot/zinc pest and its relatives...

 

Think Tank has glass walls that let in lots of light.

I don't think the NRM at York has any deliberate light controls, but both main buildings are very dull. However, flash photography might be a problem. So far as I know, the NRM are not actively trying to protect their large exhibits from light damage.

 

Slightly off subject, but to see authentic Stratford paintwork, (in black and white) try googling 'It always rains on Sundays' it's a 1947 film based in Bethnal Green and towards the end features a chase on foot across Stratford with 2 Buckjumpers working, both showing 1946 numbers, will give a good idea of the standards applied to locos not in the public eye. ( Will give H&S enthusiasts something to think about as well)

 

We don't measure the different frequencies of light separately, however we do use UV-blocking film on our windows. So light with lower UV content will give a lower light reading (measured in lux).

And yes historic textiles are a nightmare! Not only have you got to keep the light off them, they can also become extremely brittle and hence very difficult to handle or clean. On the other hand though, they are very beautiful and well worth preserving - that's why we do the job after all!